Why Cheating is Wrong!

[MathGeek]

People expect their doctors, their pilots, their engineers, and their military officers to have genuinely earned their professional credentials and to meet rigorous standards in areas of knowledge and conduct necessary for public trust in the performance of their duties. Cheating is wrong because academic dishonesty in the training of these professions undermines both the expected level of expertise and the expected level of trust. Educators have a duty to society to ensure the quality of graduates, and this duty includes good faith efforts to prevent academic dishonesty.
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[MathGeek]

Are cheaters better off for having cheated? Why or why not?

It depends on what you mean by "better off." Many students who struggle mightily in their math and science courses in college are in that position because they passed without actually learning the math and science they should have in high school and earlier college courses.

In most cases, accountability and counter measures against cheating are significantly increased in college, so the odds are greater if one habitually cheats, one will get caught. It is very difficult to cheat ones way through an entire engineering or science major. Many students realize the likelihood of getting caught cheating, yet they are too far behind in their studies to catch up honestly.

More than half of students admitted to college with the expressed intent of majoring in science or engineering drop out or change their majors.

Cheating on MCAT, LSAT, GRE, and other exams for grad school, med school, law school, professional certifications is also very hard. Cheating in that calc, physics, or chemistry class is going to bite students when they are unable to realize their future dreams.

Success in later courses requires actually learning and retaining material from earlier courses, especially in math, science, and engineering. Cheating sets oneself up for failure downstream. Students are seldom better off for having cheated.

[jpeff31787]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

People expect their doctors, their pilots, their engineers, and their military officers to have genuinely earned their professional credentials and to meet rigorous standards in areas of knowledge and conduct necessary for public trust in the performance of their duties. Cheating is wrong because academic dishonesty in the training of these professions undermines both the expected level of expertise and the expected level of trust. Educators have a duty to society to ensure the quality of graduates, and this duty includes good faith efforts to prevent academic dishonesty.
Read More:

You forgot to mention that educators are forced to give kids extra time, extra assignments, extra points, and if that doesn't work they are nearly forced by administration to give them a passing grade. The reason for this is Louisiana hands out more funds to passing schools and less to failing schools. If that wasn't the case teachers and administration could do their job as they should and that is to TEACH our children, instead of giving grades. That's the biggest cheat there is in education today.

[hewes]

mathgeek please go sub in a public school for a week and your questions will be awnsered

[Pull n Pray]

I cheated in high school and got a scholarship. Then I cheated in college and got a degree. I lied on my resume and got an entry level job. 10 years later, I have a high paying job and I'm good at what I do. I'm completely honest in every other aspect of my life. I just really hated school.

[B-Stealth]

Originally Posted by Pull n Pray

I cheated in high school and got a scholarship. Then I cheated in college and got a degree. I lied on my resume and got an entry level job. 10 years later, I have a high paying job and I'm good at what I do. I'm completely honest in every other aspect of my life. I just really hated school.

Lol, if you ain't cheating you ain't trying.

[DaPointIsDaBomb]

Cheating worked well for me. My ex cheated on me and got the single wide, now I moved up to a double and dont have to listen to her anymore

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by jpeff31787

You forgot to mention that educators are forced to give kids extra time, extra assignments, extra points, and if that doesn't work they are nearly forced by administration to give them a passing grade. The reason for this is Louisiana hands out more funds to passing schools and less to failing schools. If that wasn't the case teachers and administration could do their job as they should and that is to TEACH our children, instead of giving grades. That's the biggest cheat there is in education today.

I agree that academic rigor is suffering greatly beyond allowing students to cheat, and taxpayers and employers are getting cheated in many ways. Thanks for pointing this out. You may have missed an earlier post that discussed this in more detail:

The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of Academia

[jpeff31787]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I agree that academic rigor is suffering greatly beyond allowing students to cheat, and taxpayers and employers are getting cheated in many ways. Thanks for pointing this out. You may have missed an earlier post that discussed this in more detail:



The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of Academia

I did miss that, but yep there you go. That's just sad...

Thanks for the link


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

["W"]

Originally Posted by Pull n Pray

I cheated in high school and got a scholarship. Then I cheated in college and got a degree. I lied on my resume and got an entry level job. 10 years later, I have a high paying job and I'm good at what I do. I'm completely honest in every other aspect of my life. I just really hated school.

I call that "Winning"

[hewes]

win if u can lose if you must but always cheat

cheating is better than repeating

when in doubt look about

you not cheating you not tying

inprovise adapt and overcome

["W"]

...

[Lake Chuck Duck]

If you dont like cheaters stay away from the Engineering building at McNeese. We had it down to a science!

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Lake Chuck Duck

If you dont like cheaters stay away from the Engineering building at McNeese. We had it down to a science!

Someone I know well once applied for a teaching job and had a phone interview with McNeese. After a discussion on academic rigor, both parties could see that there was not a goof fit between the candidate and the STEM department at McNeese.

It's a sad thing. Louisiana really needs engineers and scientists who really earned their degrees.

[Matt G]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Someone I know well once applied for a teaching job and had a phone interview with McNeese. After a discussion on academic rigor, both parties could see that there was not a goof fit between the candidate and the STEM department at McNeese.

It's a sad thing. Louisiana really needs engineers and scientists who really earned their degrees.

That word no longer means what it once did. Everybody gets a trophy now. You "earned" it just for showing up.

[Lake Chuck Duck]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Someone I know well once applied for a teaching job and had a phone interview with McNeese. After a discussion on academic rigor, both parties could see that there was not a goof fit between the candidate and the STEM department at McNeese.

It's a sad thing. Louisiana really needs engineers and scientists who really earned their degrees.

I still had many nights staying up to the crack of dawn or until I fell asleep on top of my books getting ready for exams. I put in the work for 5 years while working to pay my bills. Although there is alot of truth to my previous post, to say I didnt earn my degree is a load of crap. Been an engineer in industry for over 6 years now.

[Pull n Pray]

At least 50% of college is BS anyway. i had to take a theater class, write papers on Shakespeare, diagram sentences, among tons of other crap I couldn't care less about. If someone wants to learn that stuff, that's great. We have libraries for that. I learned more about my field in 6 months than I learned in 4 years of college.

[cmcnabb]

Originally Posted by Lake Chuck Duck

I still had many nights staying up to the crack of dawn or until I fell asleep on top of my books getting ready for exams. I put in the work for 5 years while working to pay my bills. Although there is alot of truth to my previous post, to say I didnt earn my degree is a load of crap. Been an engineer in industry for over 6 years now.

You didn't earn it, you cheated. Did you even study bro??





Btw i cheated in college too just like everyone else except OP. Guess my degree was "given" to me like everyone keeps saying degrees are now. Id like to know where those teachers were when i was in school and mcneese popo ran us out drew hall at 2 am. I have a successful career and use nothing I learned in college at work. Learned everything, minus algebra and problem solving skills, on the job. But the piece of paper got my foot right where it needed to be in the door

[MathGeek]

Try thinking of this from the viewpoint of senior engineers and employers. When you get to be a senior engineer, do you want the junior engineers and job candidates thinking they alone should define what they need to have done in school, or are the senior engineers and employers really in a better place to do that?

Senior engineers and employers have worked very hard to communicate what college courses engineers need to take through the ABET accrediting program. From the ABET Wiki article:

ABET was established in 1932 as the Engineers' Council for Professional Development (ECPD) by seven engineering societies:[5] The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), the American Institute of Mining and Metallurgical Engineers – now the American Institute of Mining, Metallurgical, and Petroleum Engineers (AIME), the American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME), the American Institute of Electrical Engineers – now the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), the Society for the Promotion of Engineering Education – now the American Society for Engineering Education (ASEE), the American Institute of Chemical Engineers (AIChE), and the National Council of State Boards of Engineering Examiners – now the National Council of Examiners for Engineering and Surveying (NCEES).[5]

Education is more than about knowing information, it's about thinking skills and learning how to learn and adapt to changing conditions, changing technologies, and new needs to solve different kinds of problems and communicate effectively over a 30-40 year career. Yes, you probably don't need to know Shakespeare, but odds are your reading and writing and critical thinking skills were not sufficiently developed in high school to serve your employers well throughout your entire career.

[Lake Chuck Duck]

Its human nature in the technological world these days. If a professor gives the same exact assignments semester after semester after semester after semester (like they do at Mcneese), then chances are somebody has everything you need on a jump drive or in a binder from someone who already took the course. Now exams are a different story. You study your a$$ off and dont sleep for a week and pass the test. College teaches you how to learn and use critical thinking and problem solving skills. Using 3 pages to solve one problem for a homework assignment worth only 5 points that in the real world I can google in 2 seconds? Yeah I think I will copy that down so I can go work my double shift at the restaurant and pay my bills. Call it lazy or unethical but I'm pretty damn good at my job and I've never once had to do a differential equation at work.