should red and drum limits be changed?

[keakar]

Originally Posted by Montauk17

I say leave if like it is. 5 redfish is plenty of meat for one person. As for keeping more than one over 27".....why kill the breeding stock when the smaller ones taste way better. I love to catch the big ones but see no need to kill them. Personally I like to go out and catch 20-40 redfish in a day. If we raise limits and lower stocks that would be a thing of the past.

WELL THE LIMIT WAS 50 REDFISH PER PERSON

and the point isn't about the amount of meat you or I or anyone else "feels" like is enough. the amount the limit is set at is designed to keep a good healthy population of fish and right now they are so overpopulated they are breeding like rabbits out of control and there isn't enough food to go around for all of them and other species too. as with any species you must thin out the herd to maintain a good healthy breeding stock otherwise they will harm things like crab and oyster populations and reduce the amount of spawn due to them being less able to eat as much from the competition of the shear numbers of them.

no matter what the limit is people will only keep what they want or need, the only thing raising the limits and reducing the size will do is create healthier large fish and they will breed a much larger spawn because of a healthier and better food supply for them and their young.

the mindset of "hey just put a small limit number on them for absolutely no reason" just because a few fish is all anyone should need, that is NOT how proper management of fish populations is done. by that reasoning I could make the case that all any one person needs is one nice speck or one nice red so take your choice you are now limited to only one fish per day limit over 16" for all fish (red, speck, drum, or flounder) so how does that sound for "feel good" for no scientific reason but "just because it sounds good" limitations?

leaving the limits where they are is hurting the red fish and drum populations as well as harming oysters and crab populations from over harvesting them by those overpopulated fish.

if they don't want to change the limits then they should force every redfish or drum caught to be killed regardless of its size, before its put back into the water to stop the overpopulation problem. they are overpopulated and becoming an infestation at this point and something needs to change.

they tried ingoring overpopulation issues before in florida with aligators until they ran out of food and gators were walking down the road and in front and back yards through subdivisions eating pets and living in peoples swimming pools. one 6 footer even came in through the doggie door and the lady found it in the kitchen that morning. they only yielded to public pressure then because kids lives were being endangered by it but the parallels are the same, either start mass killings of reds and drum to reduce the numbers or allow more to be kept by raising limits. however it is done large numbers of them need to start being removed from the water to reduce the overpopulation problem,.

this is not a thing were just ignoring the problem and pretending nature will work it out, nature will work it out by making crabs and oysters reduced to the point that they suddenly need protecting from their breeding stocks being reduced to near nothing.

[Ratdog]

Originally Posted by keakar

WELL THE LIMIT WAS 50 REDFISH PER PERSON

and the point isn't about the amount of meat you or I or anyone else "feels" like is enough. the amount the limit is set at is designed to keep a good healthy population of fish and right now they are so overpopulated they are breeding like rabbits out of control and there isn't enough food to go around for all of them and other species too. as with any species you must thin out the herd to maintain a good healthy breeding stock otherwise they will harm things like crab and oyster populations and reduce the amount of spawn due to them being less able to eat as much from the competition of the shear numbers of them.

no matter what the limit is people will only keep what they want or need, the only thing raising the limits and reducing the size will do is create healthier large fish and they will breed a much larger spawn because of a healthier and better food supply for them and their young.

the mindset of "hey just put a small limit number on them for absolutely no reason" just because a few fish is all anyone should need, that is NOT how proper management of fish populations is done. by that reasoning I could make the case that all any one person needs is one nice speck or one nice red so take your choice you are now limited to only one fish per day limit over 16" for all fish (red, speck, drum, or flounder) so how does that sound for "feel good" for no scientific reason but "just because it sounds good" limitations?

leaving the limits where they are is hurting the red fish and drum populations as well as harming oysters and crab populations from over harvesting them by those overpopulated fish.

if they don't want to change the limits then they should force every redfish or drum caught to be killed regardless of its size, before its put back into the water to stop the overpopulation problem. they are overpopulated and becoming an infestation at this point and something needs to change.

they tried ingoring overpopulation issues before in florida with aligators until they ran out of food and gators were walking down the road and in front and back yards through subdivisions eating pets and living in peoples swimming pools. one 6 footer even came in through the doggie door and the lady found it in the kitchen that morning. they only yielded to public pressure then because kids lives were being endangered by it but the parallels are the same, either start mass killings of reds and drum to reduce the numbers or allow more to be kept by raising limits. however it is done large numbers of them need to start being removed from the water to reduce the overpopulation problem,.

this is not a thing were just ignoring the problem and pretending nature will work it out, nature will work it out by making crabs and oysters reduced to the point that they suddenly need protecting from their breeding stocks being reduced to near nothing.

I agree with most of what you say but let's take a look at the UK and the situation of the Cod. Due to size limits on them and commercial fishing the cod have started breeding at a younger age. So they have altered the normal life cycle of the fish. This is what I feel is happening to reds now.

I really would like to know of how many people have cleaned a fish on the upper end of limit that had eggs.
Or any fish with eggs. And what size it was.

I personally do not want or need to clean more than two fish 30 lb or more. It tires me out after an allredy long day.

[capt hoop]

With larger limits it would put a burden on the charters during slow days because the customers would want to stay till dark to get their money's worth of meat. Makes for an even tougher day.

Just the mind set of some customers.

[swamp snorkler]

Originally Posted by Quackhead62

I say leave it the same. The fishery is really thriving. I agree with Montauk about the ones over 27" let the breeding stock swim. I much rather catch plenty between 18"-24" than just a few over 27" just for thw fight.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Sure the redfish/drum population is thriving but it is killing the oyster and crab industry.

[Clampy]

I don't ever recall cleaning a redfish with eggs


Spiral Out

[mallardhead]

Originally Posted by Clampy

I don't ever recall cleaning a redfish with eggs


Spiral Out

I never have.

Sent from my LGL45C using Tapatalk 2

[swamp snorkler]

When I helped clean fish for the Hercules we cleaned some Bull Reds with eggs in them.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Ratdog

I personally do not want or need to clean more than two fish 30 lb or more. It tires me out after an allredy long day.

We can usually put 4-5 bulls (reds and/or drum) in a 120 quart ice chest. These fish are typically 36-42" long and barely fit lengthwise. If I don't have the energy to clean them the same day, we ice them down well and I clean them the next day with no loss of quality. Even when the drum have the parasites, there is plenty of good meat in the back area with the parasites closer to the tail. We've notice a tendency to get more usable, quality meat from bull drum in the cooler months with more waste in the warmest months. Some summers Barataria drum are clearer and some summers Calcasieu drum are clearer.

I'd rather clean 4 bulls than 20 smaller fish. I've done so many that I've got my procedure down, and my wife and daughter have learned how to trim for excellent flavor and how to select recipes that make excellent use of the firmer texture: drum kabobs, drum parmesan, grilled drum, coconut drum, etc. We usually have plenty of fish around for dishes more suited for more tender, flakey fish (catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc.)

["W"]

Originally Posted by Clampy

I don't ever recall cleaning a redfish with eggs


Spiral Out

Because the ones with eggs are in offshore waters where they spawn and your not allowed to keep reds in fed waters

[meaux fishing]

Originally Posted by "W"

Because the ones with eggs are in offshore waters where they spawn and your not allowed to keep reds in fed waters

Yep

[Ratdog]

Originally Posted by swamp snorkler

When I helped clean fish for the Hercules we cleaned some Bull Reds with eggs in them.

Ware were they caught in close or out by rigs.

[Ratdog]

This whole thing is screwed up.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I'd rather clean 4 bulls than 20 smaller fish. I've done so many that I've got my procedure down, and my wife and daughter have learned how to trim for excellent flavor and how to select recipes that make excellent use of the firmer texture: drum kabobs, drum parmesan, grilled drum, coconut drum, etc. We usually have plenty of fish around for dishes more suited for more tender, flakey fish (catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc.)

but that's just it, if you keep the 16" reds they are just as tender and flakey as the catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc, that's why I am so much in favor or reducing the keeper size to 14".

next time you go keep a couple 16" reds and try them the same as you would the other fish. naturally trimming off the red blood meat (and there isn't much of it in smaller fish) but im sure you knew that.

16-17" is best and the meat starts to firm up at 18"+

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by keakar

but that's just it, if you keep the 16" reds they are just as tender and flakey as the catfish, sheepshead, trout, bass, etc, that's why I am so much in favor or reducing the keeper size to 14".

next time you go keep a couple 16" reds and try them the same as you would the other fish. naturally trimming off the red blood meat (and there isn't much of it in smaller fish) but im sure you knew that.

16-17" is best and the meat starts to firm up at 18"+

We keep most of the legal fish we catch, though one that is barely legal (16") might be thrown back so that ice chest shrinkage does not cause a problem for us. There's just not much meat on most 14-16" reds.

I don't think allowing folks to keep 14-16" reds will hurt the resource, so I wouldn't oppose this. However, there is a lot of bias against keeping the smaller fish, so I tend to think that doubling the limit of the existing length ranges is more likely to find wide support.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

We keep most of the legal fish we catch, though one that is barely legal (16") might be thrown back so that ice chest shrinkage does not cause a problem for us. There's just not much meat on most 14-16" reds.

I don't think allowing folks to keep 14-16" reds will hurt the resource, so I wouldn't oppose this. However, there is a lot of bias against keeping the smaller fish, so I tend to think that doubling the limit of the existing length ranges is more likely to find wide support.

I found if you "assume" an average shrinkage of 1/4" your ok so I mark my lines at 12 1/4" and 16 1/4" and if it touches the line it goes back but if it goes just past the line i'll keep it.

true theres not much meat on the small fish (16" red is about the same as a 12-14" speck fillet) but the meat texture is worth the extra effort to clean it for that small amount of meat because that small fillet is going to be flakey and tender and not firm and lumpy like the bigger ones are.

for the big ones they are for stews, gumbo, and coobeyon (ya I know I cant spell it) and the small ones are for frying

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by keakar

for the big ones they are for stews, gumbo, and coobeyon (ya I know I cant spell it) and the small ones are for frying

We've been frying the big ones (redfish and drum) for years. On the spur of the moment one time, we called them "golden nuggets" to create greater interest from the children, and the children became big fans of the texture of the bigger fish when fried.

I like the texture of the bigger fish because they stand up to grilling and kabobs and stuff like that without coming apart. I like tender, flakey fish too, just not all the time.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

We've been frying the big ones (redfish and drum) for years. On the spur of the moment one time, we called them "golden nuggets" to create greater interest from the children, and the children became big fans of the texture of the bigger fish when fried.

I like the texture of the bigger fish because they stand up to grilling and kabobs and stuff like that without coming apart. I like tender, flakey fish too, just not all the time.

yep, I usually take the back straps and slice them into nuggets myself when I don't have small ones to fry and I thin slice the rest like they do for big catfish. im just not very good at thin slicing so I butcher a lot of meat and end up making fish patties out of em lol.

didn't want to imply anything was "wrong" with the bigger ones being firm, its just you do different things with them because its firmer meat.

[Ratdog]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

We've been frying the big ones (redfish and drum) for years. On the spur of the moment one time, we called them "golden nuggets" to create greater interest from the children, and the children became big fans of the texture of the bigger fish when fried.

I like the texture of the bigger fish because they stand up to grilling and kabobs and stuff like that without coming apart. I like tender, flakey fish too, just not all the time.

I like bellys and ribbs on the grill wit da terry oxy sauce I calls um baby backs from down under.

Got tooth picks built in and native necklace charms makeing for later.
I would eat more blacks if the ones at fresh water did not have so many worms.......so bad in belly cavity all to tail. A shame as the small ones seem to have them too. Only the pan fryer size that is iligal are edible but I never take them cuz I'm scared of the water police shooting me.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by Ratdog

I like bellys and ribbs on the grill wit da terry oxy sauce I calls um baby backs from down under.

Got tooth picks built in and native necklace charms makeing for later.
I would eat more blacks if the ones at fresh water did not have so many worms.......so bad in belly cavity all to tail. A shame as the small ones seem to have them too. Only the pan fryer size that is iligal are edible but I never take them cuz I'm scared of the water police shooting me.

gots news for ya, they are in EVERY fish that feed off the bottom or eat things that do.

cook a small fish whole and suddenly find a hollow spot, that's where the worms were at. the worms are 99% water and basically disappear in hot grease and dissolve to nothing so even if you missed one you are never going to be eating one if the fish is fried. big or small all fish have them you just don't see them because they are small like hair. as fish get bigger so do the worms. they live off of the fish but don't eat the fish so they are just passengers along for the ride like barnacles. they stay in pockets mostly and are easy to cut around or simply grab it and pull it out like strand of spegetti, its like picking the seeds out of a watermellon.

these are not worms like you see in animal meat, they are more like tape worms that feed off of the food the fish eats. the reason drum have so many is they eat off the bottom and often dead items the come accross are eaten and they contain the worms so the worms crawl into the tail section of the fish because its the least firm meat they can bore into so they make their home in the tail. when they get mature they crawl out of the fish and fall to the water bottom where they search for something dead to plant their eggs in to start another batch of worms and when another fish comes along to eat it the cycle starts over again.

I could be wrong about a few minor points in the life cycle process but the overall point is they are nothing more yucky then the dead mullet you find in the fishes belly so those worms that most people freak out over are just something to cut out and discard just like the guts but not a reason not to eat the rest of the fish.

[Ratdog]

Originally Posted by keakar

gots news for ya, they are in EVERY fish that feed off the bottom or eat things that do.

cook a small fish whole and suddenly find a hollow spot, that's where the worms were at. the worms are 99% water and basically disappear in hot grease and dissolve to nothing so even if you missed one you are never going to be eating one if the fish is fried. big or small all fish have them you just don't see them because they are small like hair. as fish get bigger so do the worms. they live off of the fish but don't eat the fish so they are just passengers along for the ride like barnacles. they stay in pockets mostly and are easy to cut around or simply grab it and pull it out like strand of spegetti, its like picking the seeds out of a watermellon.

these are not worms like you see in animal meat, they are more like tape worms that feed off of the food the fish eats. the reason drum have so many is they eat off the bottom and often dead items the come accross are eaten and they contain the worms so the worms crawl into the tail section of the fish because its the least firm meat they can bore into so they make their home in the tail. when they get mature they crawl out of the fish and fall to the water bottom where they search for something dead to plant their eggs in to start another batch of worms and when another fish comes along to eat it the cycle starts over again.

I could be wrong about a few minor points in the life cycle process but the overall point is they are nothing more yucky then the dead mullet you find in the fishes belly so those worms that most people freak out over are just something to cut out and discard just like the guts but not a reason not to eat the rest of the fish.

Sorry but my eyes tell me different as do the books.

I have cought several sizes and the worms are very visible spaghetti size thus spaghetti worms and yes some are small in length but with is pretty much the same. Now there are microscopic types that will turn the meat mushy you don't see them but the area they infest is like a bruise and raw meet is a bit mushy.

I got no problem eating worms for protean but I have always felt better eating helthy fish.

As fare as worm meet the large ones seem to move quit a bit more and I find a soak in water with a bit of bleach pulls um out quick if u do it right after catch and clean.

No big deal I use the bad ones for crab bait. But prefer to find a solution to the worm thing. Like reds. But that's me I eat reds 21 lbs and up.

I have never seen spaghetti worms I'm them but have seen mush spot.

I must agree black drum tastes better than red though just wish I could get a big one out of fresh water.

Again I like black drum. And I have always wonderd were comer iCal fishers get worm free ones. I don't think they can sell infected fish on the market.

One other point is you can't just cut um out. In the belly I wish try from head to tail in the meat blood line even swim bladder a bunch of squirming spaghetti.

To me that ain't helthy.

I have thought of as a solution to set up pin and deworming the fish with some sort of worker but the water police would shoot you. And I bet I would be branded a fool again too.especialy for giving them a reson to shoot me.