Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Clampy]

I typed all that as I brewed my batch of drugs for my morning wake up. We all do some kind of drug.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by bmac

I am skeptical of this statement. Do you have any source info?



This argument relies on the assumption that store bought legal weed would be cheaper than some bought on the street. I'm very curious about whether illicit marijuana sales have ceased in Colorado since it was legalized. How many packs of cigarettes are illegally imported and sold in New York state each year? Are we really naive enough to think that the drug lords in south America will stop shipping pot over the border once it is legal here? Or are we now going to legally buy from those murderers?

There is no simple answer to this.

Since retail outlets haven't opened yet In CO and Was I'm sure all sales are still considered federally illegal.

America /isreal & holland grow the best bud on the planet. No one or at least most wouldn't buy Mexican ditch weed if they had a option.

[hawgsquatch]

I see the effects of the enforcement of laws that are designed to protect us from ourselves every day at work. I am for the abolition of any law that seeks to protect us from ourselves. The problems that we are facing today stem mainly from the nanny state practice of keeping stupid people alive. If we didn't have helmet laws, drug prohibitions, air bags, and warning labels, we would not have stupid voters latched onto the dole nipple who keep us in our present state. They would be dead.

How many adults in this country think that smoking cigarettes is healthy? How many are ignorant of the health risks involved with tobacco? By this point, if you do not know smoking is bad....get off my planet. The same goes for booze, drugs, and even "herbal medicines".

I see bored kids who tried a drug, and were turned into animals by a penal system designed to create correctional revenues.

If there was no safety net such as SSI, SDI, food stamps, free medical care, Section 8 etc. There would be a REAL penalty for ecoming an addict.....STARVATION!

The best part about a Libertarian agenda is the FAIR TAX! You see, pimps, dealers, thieves, and even welfare mamas and industrialist robber barons all pay thier taxes at the point of sale. No more evasion and no more IRS.

There is no Libertarian utopia, that is the forte of the Liberal Democrats. Either accept big brothergovernment and, live in a nanny state, or join the Libertarian party or reform the Republican party.

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by Clampy

Since retail outlets haven't opened yet In CO and Was I'm sure all sales are still considered federally illegal.

America /isreal & holland grow the best bud on the planet. No one or at least most wouldn't buy Mexican ditch weed if they had a option.

Can't even find "stress" in cali anymore...its been eradicated

[mr crab]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

I see the effects of the enforcement of laws that are designed to protect us from ourselves every day at work. I am for the abolition of any law that seeks to protect us from ourselves. The problems that we are facing today stem mainly from the nanny state practice of keeping stupid people alive. If we didn't have helmet laws, drug prohibitions, air bags, and warning labels, we would not have stupid voters latched onto the dole nipple who keep us in our present state. They would be dead.

How many adults in this country think that smoking cigarettes is healthy? How many are ignorant of the health risks involved with tobacco? By this point, if you do not know smoking is bad....get off my planet. The same goes for booze, drugs, and even "herbal medicines".

I see bored kids who tried a drug, and were turned into animals by a penal system designed to create correctional revenues.

If there was no safety net such as SSI, SDI, food stamps, free medical care, Section 8 etc. There would be a REAL penalty for ecoming an addict.....STARVATION!

The best part about a Libertarian agenda is the FAIR TAX! You see, pimps, dealers, thieves, and even welfare mamas and industrialist robber barons all pay thier taxes at the point of sale. No more evasion and no more IRS.

There is no Libertarian utopia, that is the forte of the Liberal Democrats. Either accept big brothergovernment and, live in a nanny state, or join the Libertarian party or reform the Republican party.

well said. Maybe its just the area I live in, or the people that I hang around with, but, most people that I talk to agree with the general idea of what you posted above. Why can't we elect someone that will push this agenda?

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by mr crab

Can't even find "stress" in cali anymore...its been eradicated

Ha. True. Recent research on PTSD and cannabis and our veterans is extremely promising. Way better than some toxic prescription drugs. With it being in S1 the government won't let anyone study it here unless they promise they are only looking for negative things. That's why Isreal is leading the world in MJ studies.

"The University of Mississippi grows and harvests cannabis for studies funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, yet because NIDA's congressionally mandated mission is to research the harmful effects of controlled substances and stop drug abuse, the institute isn't interested in helping establish marijuana as a medicine."


http://m.popsci.com/science/article/...page-view=true

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by mr crab

well said. Maybe its just the area I live in, or the people that I hang around with, but, most people that I talk to agree with the general idea of what you posted above. Why can't we elect someone that will push this agenda?

Ron Paul but he was not given the time of day by the mass media.

[Clampy]

Maybe we can get Rand Paul next go around. Something has to give.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Clampy

Maybe we can get Rand Paul next go around. Something has to give.

We can only hope...

[BassAssasin]

[Clampy]

^^ so much for that amotivational syndrome.

[Montauk17]

Check this vid out....hits points from both sides. I love how at the end dr oz asks why is tobacco legal when it is way more addictive than marijuana and she said "it is legal because it is". LOL tobacco is legal cause it lines the pockets of the big gooberment.

Dr Oz.. Medical Marijuana.. 3 of 5 - YouTube

Dr Oz.. Medical Marijuana.. 3 of 5 - YouTube

[AceArcher]

The Republican parties backers will not allow a progressive conservative to lead their position. There is to much money behind the scenes actively looking to squash anything of that nature. Frankly the Dems have the exact same position they just use different sound bites to cover them.

In our first to post election system, it's a statistical certainty that there will only be two significant parties. The only way currently that we will get rid of one of those said parties and bring some sense/reality into the equation is if there is a incredibly huge movement to vote independants into the office... the movement must be large enough to get a critical voting majority into office anything less than that in one swoop will end up back at the same old tired 2 party system.

Perhaps the greatest power that "we the people" currently have is to not let go of scandals.... keep talking about them... keep putting people into the hot seat over them. Our government really only likes to offer real change / progress of any type in order to distract people from the horsecrap that they do all the time.

Quite frankly it's in our own best interest's to do stuff like nominating and voting for people like snowden, and manning to become time's man of the year... for the nobel peace prize... etc.

To write letters to our senators and reps demanding that corporate whistleblower protections extend to the federal govn as well. etc etc etc.

I mean seriously something like 15,000 people were killed last year alone right along our border with mexico between warring drug cartels. These were not just criminals dying. Innocent have lost their lives at an alarming rate..... So in effect we have a war that is on average 10x the scale of iran,iraq, & afghanistan combined right on our BORDER. and no one is talking about it?

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

The Republican parties backers will not allow a progressive conservative to lead their position. There is to much money behind the scenes actively looking to squash anything of that nature. Frankly the Dems have the exact same position they just use different sound bites to cover them.

In our first to post election system, it's a statistical certainty that there will only be two significant parties. The only way currently that we will get rid of one of those said parties and bring some sense/reality into the equation is if there is a incredibly huge movement to vote independants into the office... the movement must be large enough to get a critical voting majority into office anything less than that in one swoop will end up back at the same old tired 2 party system.

Perhaps the greatest power that "we the people" currently have is to not let go of scandals.... keep talking about them... keep putting people into the hot seat over them. Our government really only likes to offer real change / progress of any type in order to distract people from the horsecrap that they do all the time.

Quite frankly it's in our own best interest's to do stuff like nominating and voting for people like snowden, and manning to become time's man of the year... for the nobel peace prize... etc.

To write letters to our senators and reps demanding that corporate whistleblower protections extend to the federal govn as well. etc etc etc.

I mean seriously something like 15,000 people were killed last year alone right along our border with mexico between warring drug cartels. These were not just criminals dying. Innocent have lost their lives at an alarming rate..... So in effect we have a war that is on average 10x the scale of iran,iraq, & afghanistan combined right on our BORDER. and no one is talking about it?

You are correct sir....nobody wants to talk about the troops that guard opium fields over there either. A good friend of mine from high school did 2 tours of iraq and he witnessed this first hand.

[Finfeatherfur]

Here is my perspective:

I put my self through school working as a deputy sheriff. Once through paramedic school I worked as a medic for both private ambulance services, finally ending my medical career in civil service work in a big city. After 15 years of medical calls and thousands of overdoses, I have never - EVER - transported or arrested someone overdosed on marijuana. Why? Because it is impossible to do! You will go to sleep before you stop breathing. I have run hundreds of calls, and had 3 that were fatal from acute alcohol poisioning. I have also transported more patients on prescrition Rx overdoses then I care to discuss.

Now that I am an oilfield guy, working part time in LE as a hobby, I see the problems from all angles. As an employer, we are forced to conduct drug testing on workers. Yet I can have a guy high as a kite continue to work because he has a prescription from a quack of a doctor. BUT, a man who has worked his entire life will go bankrupt trying to fight cancer and is arrested if he has some ganja to help with his side effects of chemo. Yet, we can make an arrest of a known drug dealer carrying 500lbs, to have the case plea bargained down to a simple possession and get their vehicle back.

To make matters worse, I can be sued and loose everything for having some leach of society video me trying to take a combative 25 y/o into custody who is naked in the street high on bath salts trying to eat my face that was tazed 4 times with no effect, so we go hands on, fighting for our life. The residents of the tax paid housing complex called us to deal with these people, but when we are on the ground fighting to control the maniac, they only film to have document for an attorney and offer no assistance to gain control of the subject.

Or how about the criminal drug dealer that has no job, owns 5 vehicles over $50k, and gets out of jail before the paperwork is complete for selling Roxi's to kids under 18y/o.

Do I like what I see - hellll no! Can it be fixed? At this point I am not so sure. I do know that I am more worried about 2 things right now more than anything:
1)- The abuse of prescription pills is staggering and out of control, with no end in sight. Yet, the DEA and FDA continue to allow it to happen.
2)- If this country doesn't do something really fast with the METH epidemic coming on so strong and fast, marijuana will be the last thing on their mind! I have never seen people as desperate as a METH head trying to score. It is very scary to see, and most have children that are getting stuck in the middle.

This rant is my opinion only, and not associated with the thoughts or ideas of others associated with any employers I have. I will continue to fight the war on drugs in this capacity and will remain vigilant in that fight. I will obey orders of my superiors and try to raise my kids in a manner that leads them down an honorable and successful path in life. With the help of GOD and my wife, I hope I am successful.

[Montauk17]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

Here is my perspective:

I put my self through school working as a deputy sheriff. Once through paramedic school I worked as a medic for both private ambulance services, finally ending my medical career in civil service work in a big city. After 15 years of medical calls and thousands of overdoses, I have never - EVER - transported or arrested someone overdosed on marijuana. Why? Because it is impossible to do! You will go to sleep before you stop breathing. I have run hundreds of calls, and had 3 that were fatal from acute alcohol poisioning. I have also transported more patients on prescrition Rx overdoses then I care to discuss.

Now that I am an oilfield guy, working part time in LE as a hobby, I see the problems from all angles. As an employer, we are forced to conduct drug testing on workers. Yet I can have a guy high as a kite continue to work because he has a prescription from a quack of a doctor. BUT, a man who has worked his entire life will go bankrupt trying to fight cancer and is arrested if he has some ganja to help with his side effects of chemo. Yet, we can make an arrest of a known drug dealer carrying 500lbs, to have the case plea bargained down to a simple possession and get their vehicle back.

To make matters worse, I can be sued and loose everything for having some leach of society video me trying to take a combative 25 y/o into custody who is naked in the street high on bath salts trying to eat my face that was tazed 4 times with no effect, so we go hands on, fighting for our life. The residents of the tax paid housing complex called us to deal with these people, but when we are on the ground fighting to control the maniac, they only film to have document for an attorney and offer no assistance to gain control of the subject.

Or how about the criminal drug dealer that has no job, owns 5 vehicles over $50k, and gets out of jail before the paperwork is complete for selling Roxi's to kids under 18y/o.

Do I like what I see - hellll no! Can it be fixed? At this point I am not so sure. I do know that I am more worried about 2 things right now more than anything:
1)- The abuse of prescription pills is staggering and out of control, with no end in sight. Yet, the DEA and FDA continue to allow it to happen.
2)- If this country doesn't do something really fast with the METH epidemic coming on so strong and fast, marijuana will be the last thing on their mind! I have never seen people as desperate as a METH head trying to score. It is very scary to see, and most have children that are getting stuck in the middle.

This rant is my opinion only, and not associated with the thoughts or ideas of others associated with any employers I have. I will continue to fight the war on drugs in this capacity and will remain vigilant in that fight. I will obey orders of my superiors and try to raise my kids in a manner that leads them down an honorable and successful path in life. With the help of GOD and my wife, I hope I am successful.

Lots of valid points there bro....I quit my job working in the oilfield for reasons you mentioned. The line of work I was in you always have to work in pairs,a tech and a helper. I was on a jobsite offshore of all places with a loratab junkie as a helper. He is prescribed this medication and pops them like candy. I guess he ran out so he starts asking everyone on the liftboat we were on for pills. Everyone turned him down and he saw a worker in the bunk room with a pill bottle and asked him. He turned him down,he had the pills for chronic back pain and needs them to be able to work. The guy went to work and came back to his bunk later that afternoon and my helper cleaned him out,took every last pill. Even though this little punk deserved it I was worried these guys were about to kill him. I called my boss and told them what happend and they sent him to land while I waited for them to send me another helper. I finished the job and got back to the office a few days later. I was shocked to see the junkie at the shop in work uniform,he did not get fired. I had enough at that point and turned in my work equipment. In the year and a half I was there I got piss tested 7 times and passed all of them. Not just a regular piss test,someone actually watches you fill the cup so you can't hide anything. I know this company is not the only one that does it. It is so hard to find clean employees that they send one's they know can pass a test just to keep the company's image clean on paper. Not that it was case but let's just say I smoked a little herb on the weekends while not at work. Come monday morning I get piss tested and fail and possibly get fired while these junkies get a prescription for these highly addictive pills and abuse the hell out of them. They don't get fired cause they have a doc excuse,makes me sick.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

Here is my perspective:

I put my self through school working as a deputy sheriff. Once through paramedic school I worked as a medic for both private ambulance services, finally ending my medical career in civil service work in a big city. After 15 years of medical calls and thousands of overdoses, I have never - EVER - transported or arrested someone overdosed on marijuana. Why? Because it is impossible to do! You will go to sleep before you stop breathing. I have run hundreds of calls, and had 3 that were fatal from acute alcohol poisioning. I have also transported more patients on prescrition Rx overdoses then I care to discuss.

Now that I am an oilfield guy, working part time in LE as a hobby, I see the problems from all angles. As an employer, we are forced to conduct drug testing on workers. Yet I can have a guy high as a kite continue to work because he has a prescription from a quack of a doctor. BUT, a man who has worked his entire life will go bankrupt trying to fight cancer and is arrested if he has some ganja to help with his side effects of chemo. Yet, we can make an arrest of a known drug dealer carrying 500lbs, to have the case plea bargained down to a simple possession and get their vehicle back.

To make matters worse, I can be sued and loose everything for having some leach of society video me trying to take a combative 25 y/o into custody who is naked in the street high on bath salts trying to eat my face that was tazed 4 times with no effect, so we go hands on, fighting for our life. The residents of the tax paid housing complex called us to deal with these people, but when we are on the ground fighting to control the maniac, they only film to have document for an attorney and offer no assistance to gain control of the subject.

Or how about the criminal drug dealer that has no job, owns 5 vehicles over $50k, and gets out of jail before the paperwork is complete for selling Roxi's to kids under 18y/o.

Do I like what I see - hellll no! Can it be fixed? At this point I am not so sure. I do know that I am more worried about 2 things right now more than anything:
1)- The abuse of prescription pills is staggering and out of control, with no end in sight. Yet, the DEA and FDA continue to allow it to happen.
2)- If this country doesn't do something really fast with the METH epidemic coming on so strong and fast, marijuana will be the last thing on their mind! I have never seen people as desperate as a METH head trying to score. It is very scary to see, and most have children that are getting stuck in the middle.

This rant is my opinion only, and not associated with the thoughts or ideas of others associated with any employers I have. I will continue to fight the war on drugs in this capacity and will remain vigilant in that fight. I will obey orders of my superiors and try to raise my kids in a manner that leads them down an honorable and successful path in life. With the help of GOD and my wife, I hope I am successful.

Thanks man. Good to hear common sense coming from Law Enforcement.

[BassAssasin]

man that is some scary stuff!

[Clampy]

Everyone always screams "what about the children " and CPA takes kids away from parents simply because they smoke weed. What's more damaging to the child. Their parents smoke not around the kids or they get abused in foster care ?

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/...in-Foster-Care

[swamp snorkler]

What happened to MG?