Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by eman

So this shows that 12th graders abuse pharmaceuticals more than marijuana? 39.4% pills vs 36.4%marijuana.

Abuse of pharmaceuticals is a real problem than needs to be addressed. But this analysis in the pills vs. marijuana is flawed.

If you add the "synthetic marijuana" to the "marijuana" you get 47.7% for marijuana, and if you add the percentages correctly for the pills you get 37.4%.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Abuse of pharmaceuticals is a real problem than needs to be addressed. But this analysis in the pills vs. marijuana is flawed.

If you add the "synthetic marijuana" to the "marijuana" you get 47.7% for marijuana, and if you add the percentages correctly for the pills you get 37.4%.

You do realize that fake weed only exist b/c real stuff is illegal right ?

["W"]

Originally Posted by Clampy

You do realize that fake weed only exist b/c real stuff is illegal right ?

You do realize fake weed is illegal also right?

[tim3516]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Abuse of pharmaceuticals is a real problem than needs to be addressed. But this analysis in the pills vs. marijuana is flawed.

If you add the "synthetic marijuana" to the "marijuana" you get 47.7% for marijuana, and if you add the percentages correctly for the pills you get 37.4%.

The fact that it is SYNTHETIC tells you that it is not marijuana.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Well color me impressed, After 20 pages of nonsense, you have finally linked a real study, that's both current, and in some senses supports your viewpoints that cannabis should remain illegal. Dang, it is true even a blind bird finds a worm every once in a while.

You did however omit some crucial portions of the study. Namely this chart and the fact that both Cigarette use and Alcohol use have been dropping. It's my position that these abuses are decreasing because they are legal, regulated, and thereby kept out of the hands of teens.

Thus again driving home the exact point, that legalization and regulation are the only way in which you keep drugs out of the hands of teens.

Thanks MG, didn't realize you had flipped sides and joined our liberalist cause.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

You did however omit some crucial portions of the study. Namely this chart and the fact that both Cigarette use and Alcohol use have been dropping. It's my position that these abuses are decreasing because they are legal, regulated, and thereby kept out of the hands of teens.

I think the increased regulation of alcohol and tobacco have played an important role in reducing use by teens, both in showing teens that society believes they are dangerous and because their use has been more tightly restricted since the late 1980s.

Recall that the drinking age has been raised from 18 to 21 in most states over this period. This means that almost no high school students may legally buy alcohol, but it also raises the access bar because other parties supplying alcohol to teens need to be 21 to legally purchase. I would be curious to know if the libertarian-minded advocates of marijuana legalization are hoping to put the access age at 18 or 21. Your analogy argument with alcohol ("legalization would reduce teen access") is only valid if you intend to make the age of access 21. Drunk driving laws are also tighter and more strictly enforced, with much stiffer penalties for those under 21 driving under the influence.

Public smoking has also come under much tighter restrictions in the US over the past 20 years, and several states have raised their ages for legal purchase.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I think the increased regulation of alcohol and tobacco have played an important role in reducing use by teens, both in showing teens that society believes they are dangerous and because their use has been more tightly restricted since the late 1980s.

Recall that the drinking age has been raised from 18 to 21 in most states over this period. This means that almost no high school students may legally buy alcohol, but it also raises the access bar because other parties supplying alcohol to teens need to be 21 to legally purchase. I would be curious to know if the libertarian-minded advocates of marijuana legalization are hoping to put the access age at 18 or 21. Your analogy argument with alcohol ("legalization would reduce teen access") is only valid if you intend to make the age of access 21. Drunk driving laws are also tighter and more strictly enforced, with much stiffer penalties for those under 21 driving under the influence.

Public smoking has also come under much tighter restrictions in the US over the past 20 years, and several states have raised their ages for legal purchase.

They believe its dangerous because Alcohol and tobacco are toxic and addictive.
It's not enforcement that slowed it down it's education.
Of course the legal age for cannabis would be 21 years of age no ones advocating recreational use for kids.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Clampy

Of course the legal age for cannabis would be 21 years of age no ones advocating recreational use for kids.

Two voters in the poll have advocated reducing penalties for access to minors.

In post #281, Goooh wrote that weed being illegal for Tryann Mathieu (20 at the time Les Miles kicked him off the team) was the cause of his woes rather than the negative effects of cannabis on teenagers.

The inference that marijuana should not have been illegal for the 20 year old was clear.

Maybe some LSU fans did not realize that Tryann Mathieu was only 20 when Les Miles kicked him off of the team and when (two months later) he got into trouble with the law for possession.

All those who really think cannabis use should remain illegal for all teenagers can go ahead and positively affirm the statement:

The athletic and legal consequences for Tryann Mathieu were completely reasonable because he was only 20 at the time and cannabis use should have been illegal for him! He should have known better. I hope drug laws remain strictly enforced for teenagers!

["W"]

#360

"in"

[AceArcher]

Dang 3 hours of no commentary, I was becoming genuinely concerned that we might never reach the mystical post count of 420!


I can't see the picture that MG posted, so i have no idea what it is.

[hawgsquatch]

I think wife beaters should be a mandatory life sentence..........I hate those shirts.

[Andy C]

Don't know about any of them you stated but, meth is a bad problem around here. Again don't know if it's cause drugs are illegal or not but I would bet it's high use in La. Too!!

[Clampy]

All that graph states is kids are getting smarter by choosing the safer cannabis. Nice work in adding up the pharma ones. If it was really about safety and well being no one would get arrested for weed until all the meth was eradicated.
Rape kits sit back logged in evidence rooms because cops are too busy filling out paper work on drugs. If they had asset forfeiture and mandatory minimums for rapist I bet it would be different .

[Clampy]

Legal MJ would effectively eliminate synthetic pot. No one on this earth would chose the fake over the real. Unlike real cannabis the fake is really dangerous but a high % of people use just to get around a drug test. Furthering my point that drug test just make people use more dangerous drugs.

[Clampy]

Prohibition has effectively created a new class of dangerous drugs way more dangerous then their counterparts.
Prohibition of booze created moonshine. Prohibition of drugs has spawned bath salts.

[MissSmallAimsSmall]

"Cross-sectional studies have revealed significant associations between cannabis use and a range of measures of educational performance including lower grade point average, less satisfaction with school, negative attitudes to school, increased rates of school absenteeism and poor school performance....In particular, early cannabis use appears to be associated with the adoption of an anti-conventional lifestyle characterized by affiliations with delinquent and substance using peers, and the precocious adoption of adult roles including early school leaving, leaving the parental home and early parenthood."- The effects of adolescent cannabis use on educational attainment: a review

[BassAssasin]

Originally Posted by MissSmallAimsSmall

"Cross-sectional studies have revealed significant associations between cannabis use and a range of measures of educational performance including lower grade point average, less satisfaction with school, negative attitudes to school, increased rates of school absenteeism and poor school performance....In particular, early cannabis use appears to be associated with the adoption of an anti-conventional lifestyle characterized by affiliations with delinquent and substance using peers, and the precocious adoption of adult roles including early school leaving, leaving the parental home and early parenthood."- The effects of adolescent cannabis use on educational attainment: a review

yea kids should not smoke weed.

["W"]

you said weed was not addictive so now your saying it is Clampy?? Must be for someone to smoke a synthetic weed to void s drug test???

So if they are that hard up to smoke a fake drug for a high..."addicted"

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by "W"

you said weed was not addictive so now your saying it is Clampy?? Must be for someone to smoke a synthetic weed to void s drug test???

So if they are that hard up to smoke a fake drug for a high..."addicted"

I wanted McDonald's yesterday but they didn't have one close by so I got Burger King. #addicted.

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by "W"

you said weed was not addictive so now your saying it is Clampy?? Must be for someone to smoke a synthetic weed to void s drug test???

So if they are that hard up to smoke a fake drug for a high..."addicted"

Some people just don't like to drink.
If they can catch their buzz and keep their job they will but by calling it Synthetic MJ people assume its safe like real MJ. It's not synthetic pot it's nasty potpourri. This whole argument is for adults to legally have the right to chose a substance safer than alcohol.