Answering the Libertarian argument for drug legalization

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

1. Because people know its a silly law.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
Thomas Jefferson

2. It's just supply and demand. Your assuming everyone wants to get drunk.
Prohibition is what keeps the price up making all those drug dealers you hate rich.

3. Yeah. Smoking a joint and murder. Those to things are equated.

["W"]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

Yea that was a stupid statement by Mako that weed is not additive..... my own brother was addicted to weed for years until he finally grew up and got help!

But I guess that USL professor was a pot head in denial

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

Yea that was a stupid statement by Mako that weed is not additive..... my own brother was addicted to weed for years until he finally grew up and got help!

But I guess that USL professor was a pot head in denial

Weed is not addictive... This is not some scientist's / doctor's conjecture or one off study it is as you say "the Fact, Jack"

What weed is accepted to be is dependency forming. That means that when you regularly use it, you enjoy its use, and the experience of using it enough that you voluntarily want to continue doing so.

This is the exact same process that we go thru in the enjoyment / use we get from things like fishing, hunting, eating good food, eating junk food, sex, and / or anything that you regularly find enjoyment in doing.

If you were supposed to go fishing tommorrow, and you were unable to go "for whatever reason" and your fishing dependant. You would be a little bit sad, but would basically say, "well there will be another time that i can chase them trots" and then you would go on and take care of all the things that day that you needed to. Like any normal person would.

If however you had a PHYSICAL ADDICTION to fishing, upon learning of not being able to go, and as the physical addiction began causing it's chemical affects. You would become physically incapable (due to convulsions, withdrawal rage, pain etc) of doing anything else (productive or not) until either your addiction was given to you, or until withdrawals from the chemical stopped impacting your body.


In regards to your brother, I commend him for seeking help and curing his dependancy to weed. Like alcohol some people can become very dependant on it, It is however fortunate that he did not have to go thru the physical symptoms of a drug / alcohol addiction in addition to dealing with his dependancy. That would have been even worse for him. I hope he does well in the future, and if he does choose to use in the future, i hope he is able to keep it to a non regular / recreational use level.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

Weed is not addictive... This is not some scientist's / doctor's conjecture or one off study it is as you say "the Fact, Jack"

What weed is accepted to be is dependency forming. That means that when you regularly use it, you enjoy its use, and the experience of using it enough that you voluntarily want to continue doing so.

I understand the scientific distinction between physiologically addicting and what you call "dependency forming" which is also often called psychologically addicting in the scientific papers.

The practical difference is how quickly the addiction can form. But once the addiction is formed, how much does it matter? Honey Badger was hooked on weed and could not quit even though the stakes were very high for him. He went from being a Heisman finalist and very promising LSU player to being a washed out loser in no time. His inability to quit smoking dope cost his LSU teammates, the LSU fans, and his own college football experience dearly.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

If it is non addictive, why are people willing to go to jail to do it?

If it is non addictive why do people pay so much for it and it is always in demand.

If it is non addictive why does it work on the pleasure centers of the brain and release dopanine the same as caffiene, alcohol, and cocaine.

We has a college professor here kill his wife, behead her, and eat part of her...what does that do to your argument. If your professors status and education makes him right about addiction, my professor makes yours a cannibal.

BTW you can't teach ethics, you have them or you don't.

lol. you and your flip flopping..

[AceArcher]

Gateway theory.... In another form.

If you learned how to ride a bike, Then it's likely your going to become a "Hell's Angel" riding a big MOTOR BIKE.

If you learned how to fish with a cane pole from your granpa while fishing with crickets, Then statistics and studies show that you will become the CEO of a GILLNETTING company, that kills and can's all dolphins they catch for the fun of it.

If you learned how to shoot a shotgun by shooting skeet, the gateway theory proves that you will end up being a serial murder who will have at least 87 victims. All will be killed with a bb gun to the temple.

[Montauk17]

Quick video for people that don't want to read....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hV3CCMdus

["W"]

After this thread

[AceArcher]

Oh and here's some interesting data from the 2005 National Survey of Drug use and Health done here in the good old USA.

Alcohol[edit source | editbeta]

Both alcohol and tobacco tend to precede cannabis use, and it is rare for those who use hard drugs to not have used alcohol or tobacco first.[3] Data from the 2005 National Survey of Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) in the United States found that, compared with lifetime nondrinkers, adults who have consumed alcohol were statistically much more likely to currently use illicit drugs and/or abuse prescription drugs in the past year.[25] Effects were strongest for cocaine (26 times more likely), cannabis (14 times more likely), and psychedelics (13 times more likely). In addition, lifetime drinkers were also six times more likely to use or be dependent on illicit drugs than lifetime nondrinkers.[25]
As with cannabis, this correlation does not, however, necessarily mean that alcohol is a gateway drug (i.e. a causal relationship). In addition, whether one tries alcohol or cannabis first before the other does not accurately predict later substance use disorders.[21]
One study found that, in the United States, raising the drinking age to 21 in the 1980s was correlated with an increase in cannabis use among high school seniors, the opposite of what the gateway theory would predict. This suggests that the two substances are substitutes rather than complements. Interestingly, state decriminalization of cannabis did not predict an increase in cannabis use; rather, it predicted a mild decrease in both alcohol and cannabis use. Higher alcohol prices, however, appeared to reduce the use of both substances, suggesting at least partial complementarity (though not necessarily a gateway).[26]

Based on this, it seems like alcohol and not weed is the real gateway drug!

Man where is that picture of W with the beer can!!!! LOCK HIM UP I SAY!!!!! 5 years for first offense...

[southern151]

Well, I've learned a few things tonight...The Feds may be watching what I post...I'm an FFL so, I'm certain the ATF knows what I'm doing all the time. I DO NOT do drugs. I HAVE done them...I had a good time with most of them to boot!

Some people are willing to kill their kids for smoking a joint, apparently! It's the equivalent of a muslim girl taking to a Christian boy or, showing her face in public.

Some people think it should be a 20 year prison sentence for possession of a joint but, think that the distraction of texting and driving is fine.

Some others think that, if the conversation isn't going their way, the comparison of pedophilia and, permiscuous thinking are the only alternative.

Likely, while drug use should be forbidden because it will make you a total moron, being a drop out must be ok.

[southern151]

As I sit here, drinking a beer (because it's legal), I can't help but to think that the day the US declared a "war on drugs" was the day that we lost the fight. Bottom line...it's illegal. Can anyone tell me why the beer I am drinking RIGHT NOW is legal and, the joint my neighbor may be smoking right now isn't? Who has longer lasting effects? My head may hurt tomorrow and, even without a beer, I won't graduate from Harvard! His may hurt as well. What is the difference?

Not one time did I hear anyone mention that going to work under any sort of intoxication was a good idea. Not one time did I see mentioned that a mother-to-be should smoke weed or, do cocaine. Not one time did I see mentioned that a parent, alone with their kids, should get drunk or, stoned.

For me, what it boils down to is, going into a man's home and, telling him what to do. What is the difference between me drinking a 12 pack last night or, my neighbor smoking a joint? I guarantee you, even if he smoked a joint, he didn't burn an LSU flag just because they lost a game! Heck, he probably burned a J with the O line after the game!

[DannyI]

Actually I wish this thread would just go away, tired of seeing it.

[southern151]

Originally Posted by DannyI

Actually I wish this thread would just go away, tired of seeing it.

Well, that's easy enough to take care of...

[Goooh]

Way to sum it up Southern!

["W"]

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed

Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

[redaddiction]

Originally Posted by "W"

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed




Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

Alcohol was made legal by who? The government.

Weed was made illegal by who? The government.

Do you understand that?

["W"]

Originally Posted by redaddiction

Alcohol was made legal by who? The government.

Weed was made illegal by who? The government.

Do you understand that?

Weed is only legal in some States not Federal Government

Do you understand that?? Weed is illegal in every State by Federal law

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by "W"

I see some people are still trying to say Alcohol is same as weed

Again Alcohol is legal after 21 years of age. Weed is illegal and must be purchased by a drug dealer


You can not compare the two anymore....Its like saying Gold is same a copper.....Pkease stop comparing these two. Weed is a drug that is illegal

And on a side note I see that other people still can't add two plus two anymore...

I don't know if you happened to notice or not.... But this discussion was started to be one discussing different viewpoints on why drugs should or should not be legalized.

It was not started to determine if you would be able to figure out if weed is currently or is not currently illegal.

On a side note, in light of that fact that you have indeed determined that weed is currently illegal in Louisiana. I would say your making good progress in your quest to develop your mind to something higher than pre-school stage.

[meaux fishing]

I generally dont jump in on stuff like this but I have seen first hand that weed can be addictive. Also that people that smoke are more likely to do other drugs. I dont care what studies y'all cite, and I dont need to answer me but I would bet at least 70-80% of people that smoke weed, have been offered and most likely taken some other form of mind altering chemical(not alcohol), at least once in their life, and not necessarily from the guy they buy their dope from. Do I believe the government should be able to tell you what to do in your own house? No, of course not, but to say there is no ill effects from smoking weed long term is false. It impairs your driving and your ability to function rationally.

[Montauk17]

Alcohol and tobacco are legal and people die from it everyday. Nuff said...you honestly think the people that make these laws are concerned about our health? Addiction = more product = more money.