what y'all make of this?

[lil bubba]

Gill nets weren't the problem with the redfish. Maybe in big lake , i don't have a clue what goes on there but back in the day you had wdsu news shooting film in the gulf on the florida purse seiners raping massive schools of bull reds in the gulf and when the boats were full the thousands of pounds were left for the sharks and crabs.
WLF stated they were properly licensed to do it that it was up to the legislature and they claimed until a bill was passed to stop it they could not do anything, sound familiar . and remember it is not just commercial and recreational,,,,its commercial , recreational , and outlaw. So now gill nets are gone. How many fish are the i don't know how many guides are bringing in now. Go to lasp and see year round the fish splattered on the docks. In my opinion if you are a guide with a paying customer on board you are a commercial operation. you are a commercial fisherman and should not be allowed to keep any fish. I did say this was just my opinion......As far as oysters, lets exclude big lake , there are more oyster beds in the marsh because of the oyster fisherman. And no i am not a member of cca and never will be...










l

[keakar]

I think I have figured all this out:

its called the Coastal Conservation Association and not Defender of Fishermens Rights Association or Science Based Wildlife Management Association so there it is, its all in the name.

lets stop bashing CCA for inaction on our important issues because they are a Conservation based organization only and that's why they care little about fishermens rights or science based species management, they are only concerned with things that are conservation based and habitat creation.

so there you have it, they only get involved to restrict fishing and hunting rights and work to build reefs and plant things to create new habitat and that's ALL they care about.

hey, I don't see them as bad at all, they do a good job doing what they do but what they do will NEVER be the things we care about. you don't ask a carpenter to fix your car so don't ask a conservation group to do anything but work to restrict fishing rights and build habitat.

there needs to be an effort to work to enlarge and generate more support and fund raising for any organization that is about fishermens rights and science based management ONLY.

leave the grass planting and reef building to CCA because that's what they do and they do it well.

[bjqx]

Originally Posted by schol

Pulled the gill nets out of the water, that's a tough one "W"

Game changer on Sabine after nets where gone.

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[schol]

You sure do talk a lot of trash about these "office fishermen" although they are the ones that provide your income.

[HenryBoy]

Originally Posted by schol

You sure do talk a lot of trash about these "office fishermen" when they are the ones that provide your income.

So are Schol and Hchol brothers or boyfriends??

That is the question??

[schol]

MG I was talking about his clientele, not CCA.

["W"]

Originally Posted by schol

MG I was talking about his clientele, not CCA.

I think the more haters I get the more trips I book and that is real facts

Every trip I book from here makes the best conversation all day
Haters going to hate

[noodle creek]

I still don't understand how triple tail limits and reducing trout limits take precedent over the oyster issue, ship channel, and weir situation. You would think these issues would be of most importance.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

I still don't understand how triple tail limits and reducing trout limits take precedent over the oyster issue, ship channel, and weir situation. You would think these issues would be of most importance.

I've always thought it ironic that they are called COASTAL CONSERVATION Association, yet they don't actually do anything to CONSERVE the COAST. They are concerned with fish, that is it. They don't concern themselves with the marshes that are a vital nursery to the fish. They don't concern themselves with the oysters that are an important food source.

Is that Coastal Conservation?

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I've always thought it ironic that they are called COASTAL CONSERVATION Association, yet they don't actually do anything to CONSERVE the COAST. They are concerned with fish, that is it. They don't concern themselves with the marshes that are a vital nursery to the fish. They don't concern themselves with the oysters that are an important food source.

Is that Coastal Conservation?

Basically my thoughts exactly.

3tail should have been last thing on their agenda. You would think they would understand this, and maybe they have something in the works for the above mentioned issues, but these things should have come a long time ago.

["W"]

CCA needs to put there money in marsh restoration not fish limits. Protect the marsh allows strong echo system and trout will take care of them self

CCA works in reverse...cut limits and hell with Marsh restoration we worry about that next limit change to 5 trout

["W"]

I bet Schol and fool

Go to the CCA banquets with starched matching long sleeve shirts with the CCA symbol embroidered on it with khaki shorts with pleats and penny loafers on. Sipping on a 10oz bud light with koozie from there daddy's business talking about all the 7 fishing trips they made last year and how they almost caught a 6lbers on super spook.
Glory Days

[hchol]

Originally Posted by "W"

I bet Schol and fool

Go to the CCA banquets with starched matching long sleeve shirts with the CCA symbol embroidered on it with hakfway shorts with pleats and penny loafers on. Sipping on a 10oz bud light with koozie from there daddy's business talking about all the 7 fishing trips they made last year and how they almost caught a 6lbers on super spook.
Glory Days

I do go to the banquets, buy the shirts, buy a new pair of loafers just for the banquet, and drink an excess of the beer....but I own my own business and get pissed when its only a 6lber

[Speckmeister]

MathGeek,
I am very interested in this data, but I am concerned.
You need to be frank with the public here that you cannot make inferences from descriptive data (your histograms), unless you have performed some statistical tests.
There are so many variables (competing hypotheses) that can account for this data besides unseeded oyster reefs.
If you have conducted some tests - then show the public. I will be happy to be mistaken if I see these data in a professional publication that's refereed.
If you can't, then you are making the same mistake you accuse CCA and the LWF Commission in accepting data from another professional that wasn't published.
Please, I do think that at least your descriptive statistics are important, but exciting the public who have no experience in design, methodology and statistics to judge your descriptive data makes me wonder here.
It also injures the public we rely on to continue funding research of our natural resources. If you do not want to send me citations here - fine! Send it by e-mail.
I will be happy to look at your descriptive data to see if we can make meaningful inferences from it.

But again, I applaud your posting these histograms - you are doing something about what I feel is not only affecting Big Lake, but all of coastal Louisiana.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Speckmeister

MathGeek,
I am very interested in this data, but I am concerned.
You need to be frank with the public here that you cannot make inferences from descriptive data (your histograms), unless you have performed some statistical tests.
There are so many variables (competing hypotheses) that can account for this data besides unseeded oyster reefs.
If you have conducted some tests - then show the public. I will be happy to be mistaken if I see these data in a professional publication that's refereed.
If you can't, then you are making the same mistake you accuse CCA and the LWF Commission in accepting data from another professional that wasn't published.
Please, I do think that at least your descriptive statistics are important, but exciting the public who have no experience in design, methodology and statistics to judge your descriptive data makes me wonder here.
It also injures the public we rely on to continue funding research of our natural resources. If you do not want to send me citations here - fine! Send it by e-mail.
I will be happy to look at your descriptive data to see if we can make meaningful inferences from it.

But again, I applaud your posting these histograms - you are doing something about what I feel is not only affecting Big Lake, but all of coastal Louisiana.

Yes, we are aware of the competing hypotheses. They are discussed in detail in the draft paper. The draft paper has been circulated privately to a number of experts and the feedback has been generally positive. Each year, we've drafted a paper and privately invited reviews from a number of experts.

We are aware that it is an overstatement to definitively conclude causality (fish decline due to oyster reef destruction), but we have made a strong case that the decline in fish condition is correlated with the decline in oysters. We have also considered whether any of the prominent competing hypotheses explain our data as well as the oyster reef hypothesis. Right now, it seems that they do not.

My colleagues and I recently discussed whether to publish our first three years of data or collect another year and then revisit the issue. We've decided to collect another year. The case will be much more convincing if the condition factors of fish rebound with the oyster populations. The more years of data we have, the more likely statistical methods are to reveal more confidence in the likely importance of various causal factors.

In general, our work is covered by various non-disclosure agreements, and I obtained the needed approvals for general release of the graphs you've seen. PM me and I'll see what might be possible, but I don't think some of the parties would approve sending the draft paper to a journalist. Some journals explicitly prohibit releasing drafts to the press prior to publication.

[Speckmeister]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Yes, we are aware of the competing hypotheses. They are discussed in detail in the draft paper. The draft paper has been circulated privately to a number of experts and the feedback has been generally positive. Each year, we've drafted a paper and privately invited reviews from a number of experts.

We are aware that it is an overstatement to definitively conclude causality (fish decline due to oyster reef destruction), but we have made a strong case that the decline in fish condition is correlated with the decline in oysters. We have also considered whether any of the prominent competing hypotheses explain our data as well as the oyster reef hypothesis. Right now, it seems that they do not.

My colleagues and I recently discussed whether to publish our first three years of data or collect another year and then revisit the issue. We've decided to collect another year. The case will be much more convincing if the condition factors of fish rebound with the oyster populations. The more years of data we have, the more likely statistical methods are to reveal more confidence in the likely importance of various causal factors.

In general, our work is covered by various non-disclosure agreements, and I obtained the needed approvals for general release of the graphs you've seen. PM me and I'll see what might be possible, but I don't think some of the parties would approve sending the draft paper to a journalist. Some journals explicitly prohibit releasing drafts to the press prior to publication.

Hi MathGeek,

I did send you a Salty Cajum PM as you requested.
Did take me a while again to figure out how to do that again.
Thanks!

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Speckmeister

Hi MathGeek,

I did send you a Salty Cajum PM as you requested.
Did take me a while again to figure out how to do that again.
Thanks!

Got it. Sending it to colleagues in an email to consider how much data/analysis/drafts we might share.

[mallardhead]

I grew up in creole hunting as a kid thru my teens my marshes in east creole and chenier perdue used to be full of life, fish,crabs, and ducks since the king bayou weirs and oak grove weirs.have been pretty much shut down for years now to keep any kind of salinity out of my marsh it has gone to sheet. Cane everywhere and what was once duck ponds have pretty much closed up to grass land. I think these weirs need to be opened back up also. They are killing what was once prime duck hunting land with these damn weirs. Just my 2 cents

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[Smalls]

Originally Posted by mallardhead

I grew up in creole hunting as a kid thru my teens my marshes in east creole and chenier perdue used to be full of life, fish,crabs, and ducks since the king bayou weirs and oak grove weirs.have been pretty much shut down for years now to keep any kind of salinity out of my marsh it has gone to sheet. Cane everywhere and what was once duck ponds have pretty much closed up to grass land. I think these weirs need to be opened back up also. They are killing what was once prime duck hunting land with these damn weirs. Just my 2 cents

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What kind of time frame are we talking about here? I mean are you talking about 30 or 40 years ago?

Historically, that area was probably not near as open as it is now. Most of the openings are due to hurricanes, salt stress, high water events, etc.

[mallardhead]

Originally Posted by Smalls

What kind of time frame are we talking about here? I mean are you talking about 30 or 40 years ago?

Historically, that area was probably not near as open as it is now. Most of the openings are due to hurricanes, salt stress, high water events, etc.

Im talking last 15 years I have seen a dramatic change with it getting worse every year. Its not only me that has noticed.

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