Thoughts on CCA meeting tonight on state of Calcasieu fishery

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by "W"

It was clear cut last night that dredging has taken a major toll on the lake , but yet they don't want to say it's all dredging !!!

They even blamed it on snails

W I think the biologist that was there talking about oysters had some pretty good scientific data based on field work. They are taking monthly and sometimes bi-monthly samples from these reefs. If he tells me that there are other factors like Oyster Predation, I am inclined to believe him.

He didn't say how much of the impact was due to dredging and how much due to other factors, but I think it is naïve to think that dredging was the ONLY concern when these guys are out there constantly sampling these reefs.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

W I think the biologist that was there talking about oysters had some pretty good scientific data based on field work. They are taking monthly and sometimes bi-monthly samples from these reefs. If he tells me that there are other factors like Oyster Predation, I am inclined to believe him.

He didn't say how much of the impact was due to dredging and how much due to other factors, but I think it is naïve to think that dredging was the ONLY concern when these guys are out there constantly sampling these reefs.

Let me ask you something

You saw that chart last night right?

Ok if you put your life savings in the market in one stock and it looked like that ENRON chart last night ! How much longer do you keep your money in that stock and let it fall?

Since dredging it has plummeted downward and guess what ? We are still allowing dredging with out any solution and you trust the Goverment ?

CMON

Did you notice there were at least 50 guides who showed up and more than half left after the weir discussion because it's the same old ****

We can't answer nothing or we are not the ones to talk to blah blah blah

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by "W"

Let me ask you something

You saw that chart last night right?

Ok if you put your life savings in the market in one stock and it looked like that ENRON chart last night ! How much longer do you keep your money in that stock and let it fall?

Since dredging it has plummeted downward and guess what ? We are still allowing dredging with out any solution and you trust the Goverment ?

CMON

Did you notice there were at least 50 guides who showed up and more than half left after the weir discussion because it's the same old ****

We can't answer nothing or we are not the ones to talk to blah blah blah

If I had to put my money on it based on the chart and the data given.... I would just say the decline is probably 75% dredging and 25% other factors. But that is just a gut feeling.

As far as "Trusting the Government"... that's a little out there. I'm saying that I believe that the Oyster Biologist that was in attendance last night was credible and is doing his best to help the Oyster fishery in our estuary with data and practices that he feels is the best available.

Maybe what we learned from this meeting is that we need a more diverse audience to voice our concerns. If CCA can organize this meeting, why can't they organize another one with decision makers. Make these guys answer the tough questions. Voice your concerns to the people making the decisions!

The problem is even if you get the decision makers in the room, no decisions will be made right on the spot. These things take time and usually require a panel of people voting on the issues. While this may not give the 50 guides the immediate satisfaction they are looking for, it's the system we have in place. We just need to work it properly.

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

Let me ask you something

You saw that chart last night right?

Ok if you put your life savings in the market in one stock and it looked like that ENRON chart last night ! How much longer do you keep your money in that stock and let it fall?

Since dredging it has plummeted downward and guess what ? We are still allowing dredging with out any solution and you trust the Goverment ?

CMON

Did you notice there were at least 50 guides who showed up and more than half left after the weir discussion because it's the same old ****

We can't answer nothing or we are not the ones to talk to blah blah blah

what question do you have now about the weirs, after what was said last night?

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

W I think the biologist that was there talking about oysters had some pretty good scientific data based on field work. They are taking monthly and sometimes bi-monthly samples from these reefs. If he tells me that there are other factors like Oyster Predation, I am inclined to believe him.

Black drum dominate the oyster predation. Word among the commercial fishers is that there are a lot more black drum in Sabine than in Calcasieu, and several commercial guys whose home base is in Hackberry are regularly fishing Sabine now because there are more black drum over there. The predation and parasite pressure on oysters are comparable between Sabine and Calcasieu, so what's causing the biggest difference in the oyster stock assessments? Dredging is the obvious dominant factor, so don't let them blind you with reports of confounding factors.

But the Oyster Predation issue may open the door toward a useful policy change that both the oyster lobby and the sport anglers can agree on: Commercial and recreational limits on black drum should be completely eliminated state wide.

There is very little risk of extirpating the species state wide, and other than human activities, heavy predation of black drum on oysters is likely the most significant contributor to declining oyster reefs and challenges in oyster reef restoration. Now, I personally like black drum and enjoy catching them, but the scientific fact is that black drum are a nuisance species destroying far more value in oyster reef habitat than their value in the commercial and recreational fisheries.

There is a small commercial black drum fishery in the state, but they may not even object to removing limits, because the commercial fishery may even be sustainable without limits, and these guys also earn money in the oyster fishery, which is much more lucrative. In addition to protecting the oyster reefs, removing limits on black drum would also have the effect of reducing competition among juveniles for forage resources shared with other species. There are certain subcultures (mostly ethnic shore anglers) who would also appreciate removal of restrictions on black drum harvest. Like many fishery regulations, there were never any stock assessments showing the regulations were needed, someone simply decided that the life history of black drum was close enough to redfish to manage them with the same recreational regulations.

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Black drum dominate the oyster predation. Word among the commercial fishers is that there are a lot more black drum in Sabine than in Calcasieu, and several commercial guys whose home base is in Hackberry are regularly fishing Sabine now because there are more black drum over there. The predation and parasite pressure on oysters are comparable between Sabine and Calcasieu, so what's causing the biggest difference in the oyster stock assessments? Dredging is the obvious dominant factor, so don't let them blind you with reports of confounding factors.

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

["W"]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

Zero oystering in Sabine

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

Good point, I was thinking of oyster drills (the snail) as a parasite rather than a predator because they are smaller than oysters, but many biologists consider them a predator because they destroy oysters.

I don't think anyone really knows whether oyster drills or black drum represents the bigger challenge in restoring and maintaining healthy oyster reefs. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_drill

Oystering is not allowed in Sabine. Sabine has the best oyster reefs in Louisiana.

[Top Dawg]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Black drum dominate the oyster predation. Word among the commercial fishers is that there are a lot more black drum in Sabine than in Calcasieu, and several commercial guys whose home base is in Hackberry are regularly fishing Sabine now because there are more black drum over there. The predation and parasite pressure on oysters are comparable between Sabine and Calcasieu, so what's causing the biggest difference in the oyster stock assessments? Dredging is the obvious dominant factor, so don't let them blind you with reports of confounding factors.

But the Oyster Predation issue may open the door toward a useful policy change that both the oyster lobby and the sport anglers can agree on: Commercial and recreational limits on black drum should be completely eliminated state wide.

There is very little risk of extirpating the species state wide, and other than human activities, heavy predation of black drum on oysters is likely the most significant contributor to declining oyster reefs and challenges in oyster reef restoration. Now, I personally like black drum and enjoy catching them, but the scientific fact is that black drum are a nuisance species destroying far more value in oyster reef habitat than their value in the commercial and recreational fisheries.

There is a small commercial black drum fishery in the state, but they may not even object to removing limits, because the commercial fishery may even be sustainable without limits, and these guys also earn money in the oyster fishery, which is much more lucrative. In addition to protecting the oyster reefs, removing limits on black drum would also have the effect of reducing competition among juveniles for forage resources shared with other species. There are certain subcultures (mostly ethnic shore anglers) who would also appreciate removal of restrictions on black drum harvest. Like many fishery regulations, there were never any stock assessments showing the regulations were needed, someone simply decided that the life history of black drum was close enough to redfish to manage them with the same recreational regulations.

I laughed

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Top Dawg

I laughed

You poking fun at my Hispanic heritage?

Maybe that's why I love black drum and gafftops?

Or maybe it's because it's all I can catch.

I tell you what, late one afternoon at the beach a crew 10-12 of "ethnic shore anglers" showed up and waded well out into the surf slinging mullet on drop rigs. They put 10-12 bull reds on the beach more quickly than I've ever seen it done before right as the sun was setting, with a few gafftops mixed in.

Don't you white boys be making fun of us ethnic fellows.

[Top Dawg]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

You poking fun at my Hispanic heritage?

Maybe that's why I love black drum and gafftops?

Or maybe it's because it's all I can catch.

I tell you what, late one afternoon at the beach a crew 10-12 of "ethnic shore anglers" showed up and waded well out into the surf slinging mullet on drop rigs. They put 10-12 bull reds on the beach more quickly than I've ever seen it done before right as the sun was setting, with a few gafftops mixed in.

Don't you white boys be making fun of us ethnic fellows.

I just found humor in your terminology lol. No biggie

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Top Dawg

I just found humor in your terminology lol. No biggie

I guess you missed my attempt to return the humor. Let me try again:

My identical twin brother used to deliver pizzas to some of BR's ethnic neighborhoods. On one occasion, a couple local gentleman blocked his path and said, "We don't like white boys comin' round here."

My brother smiled, put his hand on the grip of his Glock, and replied, "Who you callin' WHITE?"

They got out of his way in a hurry.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

I guess you missed my attempt to return the humor. Let me try again:

My identical twin brother used to deliver pizzas to some of BR's ethnic neighborhoods. On one occasion, a couple local gentleman blocked his path and said, "We don't like white boys comin' round here."

My brother smiled, put his hand on the grip of his Glock, and replied, "Who you callin' WHITE?"

They got out of his way in a hurry.

I love the look on their faces when they see you grip your sidearm. The back peddling can be pretty dramatic and almost comical at times. Its like when you tie your dog up for the first time and he runs until he gets to the end of the cable and is snatched backwards.