Waterfowl Hunter Survey Closes tonight

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Nickt87

I agree with your participation theory, but I'm sure LDWF has a target participation level that they feel is achievable and are aiming for it.

As for the everyday idiot theory, I was referring to every single hunter that is not a biologist, including myself. Just because someone is a successful or passionate hunter does not dually qualify them to be a biologist. I'm sure many successful La hunters have never ventured north of Shreveport and have no idea how hatch rates, predator rates, and the million other factors up north have an impact on the waterfowl the other 10 months out the year. They gauge what they want limits on by how many birds they want to kill, not by what is healthy for the overall big picture.

We pay taxes, licenses, and join conservation organizations to help fund the biologist and research, let them do their job.

Like I said make the limit 2 or 10 and I'll be there either way.

Ah, gotcha. That is basically what I was getting at, but my comment regarding end users still applies. They set pretty much every hunting season with some input from the public. After all, it is a public resource and LDWF is a public service agency.

Originally Posted by noodle creek

I understand that everyone's opinion should be taken into account, and some of the questions really had little to do with someone's experience level. However, the questions about zones due to populations at certain times of year in certain locations, season dates, and other questions in this same category can't be answered with much credibility from someone who hunts 4-10 days a year vs someone who hunts 40-60 days a year.

I disagree, and only because most hunters are not moving around within a particular zone. The only difference between a hunter that is afield 4-10 and a hunter that is afield 40-60 days is the number of observations in a given area....in most cases. Now there are some people that move around within a zone, but they aren't all over the zone, and they probably don't spend an equal number of days at different areas within that zone.

There may not be many birds in one part of the zone, but there may be several in another part of that zone, and vice versa. So to say that someone that is afield for 40-60 days knows more about what the season dates should be in a zone because he is spending more time afield is somewhat false, in my opinion. If both are hunting the same area, then yes, he can likely more accurately paint a picture than the 4-10 day hunter. But if both are in different parts of the Coastal Zone, for instance, does the 40-60 day hunter on his private land in Johnson Bayou have more credibility than the 4-10 day hunter on private land in Vermillion Parish east of Freshwater Bayou when commenting on the framework for the entire coastal zone?

What if you have two hunters that both hunt 40-60 days in the Coastal Zone, but one is Cameron Parish, and the other in Terrebonne Parish? What if the Cameron Parish hunter is fine with the current framework and the Terrebonne hunter would like the split to occur later or earlier? What do you do in this situation? Who has more credibility? Neither ventures outside of his parish, so neither knows what the rest of the zone looks like.

Does the 40-60 day hunter have more credibility than the 4-10 day hunter? Sure. But how much more is the real question, and can you quantify that? And does it apply to the entire zone if he is only hunting one small area of it? I don't think there should be any more weight given to that hunter than the 4-10 day hunter, because any one person's experience depends on a number of variables. If you are in the wrong place, you may see things very differently than if you were in a place where there were lots of ducks.

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Ah, gotcha. That is basically what I was getting at, but my comment regarding end users still applies. They set pretty much every hunting season with some input from the public. After all, it is a public resource and LDWF is a public service agency.




I disagree, and only because most hunters are not moving around within a particular zone. The only difference between a hunter that is afield 4-10 and a hunter that is afield 40-60 days is the number of observations in a given area....in most cases. Now there are some people that move around within a zone, but they aren't all over the zone, and they probably don't spend an equal number of days at different areas within that zone.

There may not be many birds in one part of the zone, but there may be several in another part of that zone, and vice versa. So to say that someone that is afield for 40-60 days knows more about what the season dates should be in a zone because he is spending more time afield is somewhat false, in my opinion. If both are hunting the same area, then yes, he can likely more accurately paint a picture than the 4-10 day hunter. But if both are in different parts of the Coastal Zone, for instance, does the 40-60 day hunter on his private land in Johnson Bayou have more credibility than the 4-10 day hunter on private land in Vermillion Parish east of Freshwater Bayou when commenting on the framework for the entire coastal zone?

What if you have two hunters that both hunt 40-60 days in the Coastal Zone, but one is Cameron Parish, and the other in Terrebonne Parish? What if the Cameron Parish hunter is fine with the current framework and the Terrebonne hunter would like the split to occur later or earlier? What do you do in this situation? Who has more credibility? Neither ventures outside of his parish, so neither knows what the rest of the zone looks like.

Does the 40-60 day hunter have more credibility than the 4-10 day hunter? Sure. But how much more is the real question, and can you quantify that? And does it apply to the entire zone if he is only hunting one small area of it? I don't think there should be any more weight given to that hunter than the 4-10 day hunter, because any one person's experience depends on a number of variables. If you are in the wrong place, you may see things very differently than if you were in a place where there were lots of ducks.

How is someone who hunt's 4-10 days going to know as much about what is going on in their area as someone who hunts 40-60 days? What if the 4-10 day hunter is never out on a cold front, north wind day to see the huge flights of new birds coming in? Not to mention the fact that to get to where most hunters are hunting, they probably drive through other waterfowl habitat and different areas on their way too and from their blind. I understand that different areas are not related, but there are people who hunt 40-60 days in every part of this state. To think that someone who may only be out there a few days a year has just as good of a grasp on what happens in their area as someone who is out there every day is crazy. For instance, I drive down highway 14 from Lake Charles to Gueydan every day of duck season, so I see what is going on in areas much bigger than just the blind that I hunt.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

How is someone who hunt's 4-10 days going to know as much about what is going on in their area as someone who hunts 40-60 days? What if the 4-10 day hunter is never out on a cold front, north wind day to see the huge flights of new birds coming in? Not to mention the fact that to get to where most hunters are hunting, they probably drive through other waterfowl habitat and different areas on their way too and from their blind. I understand that different areas are not related, but there are people who hunt 40-60 days in every part of this state. To think that someone who may only be out there a few days a year has just as good of a grasp on what happens in their area as someone who is out there every day is crazy. For instance, I drive down highway 14 from Lake Charles to Gueydan every day of duck season, so I see what is going on in areas much bigger than just the blind that I hunt.

Where did I suggest that someone who hunts 4-10 days knows as much as someone that is hunting 40-60 days in the same area? If we are talking about zones, someone that hunts 40-60 days in Cameron Parish doesn't know anymore about Vermilion parish than the guy that hunts 4-10 days in Vermilion Parish.

Now you are introducing an entirely different aspect to this conversation though. Three years ago, I was doing check outs of waterfowl roosting areas. I looked at more land with ducks sitting on it than I bet a lot of hunters do. But, I didn't hunt 40-60 days. Probably more in the range of the 4-10 dayer, because of work and school. Should I have had a greater voice than any other hunter? I saw when the first ducks showed up, and I saw when the last one's left. I guess I should have been on the committee to set the season or something.

I'm sure there are many people that drive up and down Highway 27 in Cameron Parish every day. Probably up and down Highway 14 too. Does that mean they have a better grasp on what the frame work should be in the Coastal Zone, because they are looking at those marshes every day? I bet a lot of them don't even hunt. Slippery slope right there.

If you start giving more voice to a certain group, what do you think is going to happen? As I mentioned before, I know several older, seasoned duck hunters that would very much like to see 30/3 come back, because they think it will thin the competition. Is that what is best for the resource and the sport? Probably not. All it will do is please a few people, and is not at all scientific.

I don't know where you got that I was suggesting that the 4-10 dayer knew as much as the 40-60 dayer. That was not my point at all. My point was, and I wrote it very clearly, most 40-60 dayers are hunting the same area; they aren't hunting across the zone. Are you telling me that what one guy sees in Cameron Parish is the tell-all for the entire coastal zone? There are 40-60 dayers all across the state, we can agree on that, but do you think every 40-60 dayer in the Coastal Zone is going to agree on when the split should be? I seriously doubt that, because the birds show up at different times across the zone, and they leave at different times. I've heard guys in certain parts of the Coastal and Eastern zone say that once you get into January, you might as well hang your gun up.

All I'm saying is, relying on one voice or group of voices more than another is a bad idea. That 4-10 dayer may not hit the conditions you described, but he's still out there.

Everyone better get ready to do a lot more griping in the future with the new method for setting the frame work. At least they could be a little more accurate when they were setting it in August or September. There's going to be some chapped asses when they start setting it with all the other hunting seasons in January or February.

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

Where did I suggest that someone who hunts 4-10 days knows as much as someone that is hunting 40-60 days in the same area? If we are talking about zones, someone that hunts 40-60 days in Cameron Parish doesn't know anymore about Vermilion parish than the guy that hunts 4-10 days in Vermilion Parish.

Now you are introducing an entirely different aspect to this conversation though. Three years ago, I was doing check outs of waterfowl roosting areas. I looked at more land with ducks sitting on it than I bet a lot of hunters do. But, I didn't hunt 40-60 days. Probably more in the range of the 4-10 dayer, because of work and school. Should I have had a greater voice than any other hunter? I saw when the first ducks showed up, and I saw when the last one's left. I guess I should have been on the committee to set the season or something.

I'm sure there are many people that drive up and down Highway 27 in Cameron Parish every day. Probably up and down Highway 14 too. Does that mean they have a better grasp on what the frame work should be in the Coastal Zone, because they are looking at those marshes every day? I bet a lot of them don't even hunt. Slippery slope right there.

If you start giving more voice to a certain group, what do you think is going to happen? As I mentioned before, I know several older, seasoned duck hunters that would very much like to see 30/3 come back, because they think it will thin the competition. Is that what is best for the resource and the sport? Probably not. All it will do is please a few people, and is not at all scientific.

I don't know where you got that I was suggesting that the 4-10 dayer knew as much as the 40-60 dayer. That was not my point at all. My point was, and I wrote it very clearly, most 40-60 dayers are hunting the same area; they aren't hunting across the zone. Are you telling me that what one guy sees in Cameron Parish is the tell-all for the entire coastal zone? There are 40-60 dayers all across the state, we can agree on that, but do you think every 40-60 dayer in the Coastal Zone is going to agree on when the split should be? I seriously doubt that, because the birds show up at different times across the zone, and they leave at different times. I've heard guys in certain parts of the Coastal and Eastern zone say that once you get into January, you might as well hang your gun up.

All I'm saying is, relying on one voice or group of voices more than another is a bad idea. That 4-10 dayer may not hit the conditions you described, but he's still out there.

Everyone better get ready to do a lot more griping in the future with the new method for setting the frame work. At least they could be a little more accurate when they were setting it in August or September. There's going to be some chapped asses when they start setting it with all the other hunting seasons in January or February.

You said "the only difference between a hunter who is afield 4-10 days vs a hunter afield 40-60 days is their observations" or something along those lines. Don't you think 40 extra days afield is a lot more to learn from?

I understand that most people hunt the same area for the most part. All I'm saying is that there are people who hunt more days than not in every area throughout the state, and there are people who hunt just a few days in every area throughout the state. The guys who hunt everyday clearly have a much better understanding of what happens throughout the course of a season compared to someone who isn't even out there.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

You said "the only difference between a hunter who is afield 4-10 days vs a hunter afield 40-60 days is their observations" or something along those lines. Don't you think 40 extra days afield is a lot more to learn from?

I understand that most people hunt the same area for the most part. All I'm saying is that there are people who hunt more days than not in every area throughout the state, and there are people who hunt just a few days in every area throughout the state. The guys who hunt everyday clearly have a much better understanding of what happens throughout the course of a season compared to someone who isn't even out there.

"Don't you think 40 extra days afield is a lot more to learn from?"

Yes, that's why I said their observations were the only difference. Does that mean the 40-60 day guy knows better for the entire zone? No. And that was my point. Seasons aren't set for one small area. They are set for 3 large zones.

Its all moot anyway, because it sounds like most of the respondents have pretty similar views anyway.

[noodle creek]

Originally Posted by Smalls

"Don't you think 40 extra days afield is a lot more to learn from?"

Yes, that's why I said their observations were the only difference. Does that mean the 40-60 day guy knows better for the entire zone? No. And that was my point. Seasons aren't set for one small area. They are set for 3 large zones.

Its all moot anyway, because it sounds like most of the respondents have pretty similar views anyway.

Right, and I never said anyone knows what it happening in an entire zone. Break the zones down into separate areas, because there are people in each small area who hunt more days than not. Each of those people has more knowledge of what happens than the guy who hunts the same area just a few days. That was my original point, guess we had a misunderstanding.

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by noodle creek

Right, and I never said anyone knows what it happening in an entire zone. Break the zones down into separate areas, because there are people in each small area who hunt more days than not. Each of those people has more knowledge of what happens than the guy who hunts the same area just a few days. That was my original point, guess we had a misunderstanding.

I mean I get your point, but for management purposes, they can't break them down. So it doesn't matter if that guy knows Cameron better and knows the birds show up on X day so the split should fall at this time, because that may not be applicable to Terrebonne parish.