Mad People today

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

West side marsh don't support the whole lake

.the east side marsh supports the whole lake it self ....

Huh??

[Smalls]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

Huh??

Lmao. That's awesome. But seriously.......seriously? Lose one marsh, and it hurts the entire system. The system would be more productive if that marsh were fresh marsh like it is supposed to be. Estuaries are productive because of freshwater influence. There is not much freshwater influence when you've got lake water constantly running into the marsh.

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[chasin'tail]

I realize that saltwater intrusion isn't good for a fresh water marsh. These aren't fresh water marshes, they are brackish, and after Rita, with the weirs not able to hold back the salt water. Fishing and shrimpimg was some of the best we had in decades. So yes there is a give and take with the the system with water changing back and forth. So on productivity, flow back and forth seem to be good for fish/shrimp/crabs etc. Bad for duck hunters.....

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by chasin'tail

I realize that saltwater intrusion isn't good for a fresh water marsh. These aren't fresh water marshes, they are brackish, and after Rita, with the weirs not able to hold back the salt water. Fishing and shrimpimg was some of the best we had in decades. So yes there is a give and take with the the system with water changing back and forth. So on productivity, flow back and forth seem to be good for fish/shrimp/crabs etc. Bad for duck hunters.....

The fishing was good due to all that decaying vegetation feeding the shrimp, crabs, which supported the food chain, it would likely be good for several years but once it converts to salt tolerant vegetation, it would go downhill fast and would likely never recover naturally. Freshwater/brackish marsh is one of the most productive ecosystems there is, and the weirs were placed there to keep it that way, the good shrimping, crabbing, and fishing that occurs there is just a bonus. If the weirs were not there, the marsh would convert and you think people complain now. Enjoy the benefits now

The same with the weirs at Rockefeller, the good shrimping, crabbing, and fishing is simply lagniappe for their management for waterfowl and to keep back saltwater intrusion

[LouisianaSportsman]

Sounds to me like "Smalls" knows a little bit and can teach "W" something on the ecology of an estuary.

["W"]

Originally Posted by LouisianaSportsman

Sounds to me like "Smalls" knows a little bit and can teach "W" something on the ecology of an estuary.

Dude that ship channel has been around for years and so have the weirs...bottom line is leaving one gate open on each weir is not going to make that marsh just evaporate

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

Dude that ship channel has been around for years and so have the weirs...bottom line is leaving one gate open on each weir is not going to make that marsh just evaporate

You are right and there were cypress in the lake before that, so do you not see what is happening.....




Marsh will not evaporate but it will become saltmarsh - no good

[Smalls]

No, it won't evaporate, but it will never return to what it was before. You can't keep letting saltwater into a marsh that you want to try and revert back to fresh or brackish marsh.

As was pointed out once before, the weirs do have openings in them for the fish and other species to move in and out of the marsh. If the fish, crabs, and shrimp don't want to move, that's the fish's choice. Also as was pointed out, they still open the weirs at certain times to allow the shrimp and crabs to move.

["W"]

Man you guys sound some the Whale Wars Tree Huggers.......

[PaulMyers]

Originally Posted by "W"

Man you guys sound some the Whale Wars Tree Huggers.......

And you sound like you only care about the fish you can catch today.

["W"]

Originally Posted by PaulMyers

And you sound like you only care about the fish you can catch today.

Our Estuary is in Great shape.....no need to change anything...this is why most of the coast is screwed up..because of man trying to control the water ways...let nature run it course......I promise mother nature always takes care of herself....EX >..Hurricane Rita

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by "W"

Our Estuary is in Great shape.....no need to change anything...this is why most of the coast is screwed up..because of man trying to control the water ways...let nature run it course......I promise mother nature always takes care of herself....EX >..Hurricane Rita

Did your child type this?!

If the weirs were not fixed after Rita you wouldn't have had to worry about potlickers, they would be fishing elsewhere where there were fish, and your biggest concern would not be trying to get the lake back to a 25 trout limit, but begging for help to fix the entire lake

[PaulMyers]

Originally Posted by "W"

Our Estuary is in Great shape.....no need to change anything...this is why most of the coast is screwed up..because of man trying to control the water ways...let nature run it course......I promise mother nature always takes care of herself....EX >..Hurricane Rita

LMAO, now that's funny right there.

Do you think it is actually better than it was before the ship channel was dug/dredged? I'm not talking about the trout fishing, but the entire estuary? You can't be serious! LOL

[Salty]

Originally Posted by PaulMyers

LMAO, now that's funny right there.

Do you think it is actually better than it was before the ship channel was dug/dredged? I'm not talking about the trout fishing, but the entire estuary? You can't be serious! LOL

Rita was a Godsend.

[MathGeek]

Some worthwhile reading:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1306/pdf/c1306_ch6_c.pdf

http://www.masgc.org/pdf/bab/hmr/Hall.pdf

http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/d...kish_marsh.pdf

http://dnr.louisiana.gov/index.cfm?m...p=home&pid=297

Plant diversity and soil organic matter content are higher in brackish marsh than in salt marsh. Brackish marsh is typically dominated by Spartina patens (marshhay cordgrass). Other significant associated species include Distichlis spicata (salt grass), Schoenoplectus olneyi (three-cornered grass), S. robustus (salt marsh bulrush), Eleocharis parvula (dwarf spikesedge), Ruppia maritima (widgeon grass), Paspalum vaginatum (seashore paspalum), Juncus roemanianus (black rush), Bacopa monnieri (coastal water hyssop), Spartina alteriflora (smooth cordgrass), and S. cynosuroides (big cordgrass). Two other major autotrophic groups in brackish marsh are epiphytic algae and benthic algae. Generally speaking, vertebrate species population levels are higher in brackish marsh compared to Salt Marsh. Brackish marsh is of very high value to estuarine larval forms of marine organisms such as shrimp, crabs, menhadden, etc. (See Salt Marsh for other functions). Brackish marsh salinity averages about 8 ppt. This community may be changed to another marsh type by shifts in salinity. Intrusion of salt water from the Gulf of Mexico up numerous waterways exerts a major influence in the configuration of the various marsh types. from
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/d...kish_marsh.pdf

After some research, my view is that keeping the weirs open all the time is most likely trading good long term productivity of the brackish marshes they protect for increased short term productivity. The marshes behind the weirs need to be maintained as brackish marshes by keeping the weirs closed most of the time when salinity levels on the lake side are too high. If the marshes behind the weirs are allowed to change into salt marshes through increased saltwater intrusion, their potential productivity will be greatly reduced.

This is an area where it is clear that wildlife management is not a zero sum game. Wise management (protecting the brackish marsh) will maintain ecosystem productivity for years to come. Unwise management (keeping the weirs open) will provide higher satisfaction for a year or two or three, but is ultimately degrading a valuable natural resource that will hurt productivity.

The current management scheme of the weirs seems scientifically sound and data driven.

["W"]

Originally Posted by Salty

Rita was a Godsend.

In a way it was...from a nature stand point
Good things from the storm were
#1 the marshes were getting over taken with water hyacinth's that had about 60% of the marsh choked up
#2 there was an over population of nutria rats destroying levees (none to be seen)
#3 there was and abundant fish reproduction (reddish mostly)
Mother nature will take care of herself and clean what needs cleaning
Hurricanes are part of life , we just happen to build houses in the path of these storms( nature don't care)

[Smalls]

I am by no means one of those "whale wars tree huggers" as you put it, Waltrip. I am, however, a conservationist that believes you have to manage the resource right if you have any desire to keep any kind of harvest coming from it. I personally resent shows like that, because some of those so called environmentalists go over the top. I will not chain myself to a tree to save a forest; I will, however, use the knowledge I have to defend it adamantly against those that do not know or fail to understand the dangers of poor or mismanagement. If it is still mismanaged, well I tried my best to sway the opinion of the masses with what we learn through research, but often the masses are unwilling to listen to what those that understand have learned, because they think they know better because they have seen that "this has been there for x amount of years and the marsh hasn't changed".

All marsh isn't the same.

The weirs are managed the way they are for a reason because people that know better have decided that. Yes the ship channel has been there years. But as it has been pointed out time and time again, in its past, Calcasieu Lake had cypress trees on its banks. That precious fishery that exists throughout the system today did not occur as such in the past because the lake was heavily freshwater influenced. Trout did not swim in Prien Lake or Lake Charles. 50 years from now, the fishery will not exist if no attempt is made to maintain the marsh that maintains it because the ecosystem is changing from all the man-made interference, such as the ship channel. So now man has to interfer with weirs to keep Calcasieu Lake in its present, man-made state.

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I am by no means one of those "whale wars tree huggers" as you put it, Waltrip. I am, however, a conservationist that believes you have to manage the resource right if you have any desire to keep any kind of harvest coming from it. I personally resent shows like that, because some of those so called environmentalists go over the top. I will not chain myself to a tree to save a forest; I will, however, use the knowledge I have to defend it adamantly against those that do not know or fail to understand the dangers of poor or mismanagement. If it is still mismanaged, well I tried my best to sway the opinion of the masses with what we learn through research, but often the masses are unwilling to listen to what those that understand have learned, because they think they know better because they have seen that "this has been there for x amount of years and the marsh hasn't changed".

All marsh isn't the same.

The weirs are managed the way they are for a reason because people that know better have decided that. Yes the ship channel has been there years. But as it has been pointed out time and time again, in its past, Calcasieu Lake had cypress trees on its banks. That precious fishery that exists throughout the system today did not occur as such in the past because the lake was heavily freshwater influenced. Trout did not swim in Prien Lake or Lake Charles. 50 years from now, the fishery will not exist if no attempt is made to maintain the marsh that maintains it because the ecosystem is changing from all the man-made interference, such as the ship channel. So now man has to interfer with weirs to keep Calcasieu Lake in its present, man-made state.

That was a good post You better save that somewhere and keep it at the ready

["W"]

Originally Posted by Smalls

I am by no means one of those "whale wars tree huggers" as you put it, Waltrip. I am, however, a conservationist that believes you have to manage the resource right if you have any desire to keep any kind of harvest coming from it. I personally resent shows like that, because some of those so called environmentalists go over the top. I will not chain myself to a tree to save a forest; I will, however, use the knowledge I have to defend it adamantly against those that do not know or fail to understand the dangers of poor or mismanagement. If it is still mismanaged, well I tried my best to sway the opinion of the masses with what we learn through research, but often the masses are unwilling to listen to what those that understand have learned, because they think they know better because they have seen that "this has been there for x amount of years and the marsh hasn't changed".

All marsh isn't the same.

The weirs are managed the way they are for a reason because people that know better have decided that. Yes the ship channel has been there years. But as it has been pointed out time and time again, in its past, Calcasieu Lake had cypress trees on its banks. That precious fishery that exists throughout the system today did not occur as such in the past because the lake was heavily freshwater influenced. Trout did not swim in Prien Lake or Lake Charles. 50 years from now, the fishery will not exist if no attempt is made to maintain the marsh that maintains it because the ecosystem is changing from all the man-made interference, such as the ship channel. So now man has to interfer with weirs to keep Calcasieu Lake in its present, man-made state.

DUDE SAVE THE TREE HUGGING ....
They use to catch Tarpon in Lake Charles...Dude you dont have a clue about this lakes HISTORY....DO YOU????


Im not saying to take the weirs out..Im saying we need a gap...which means for incoming and out going water at all times...

Keep drinking your saltwater marsh going to kill everything kool aid.....Pass it around...

[deltahunter85]

seriously, how could you possibly let nature take its course when man destroyed the most important device of the entire system?!?! the natural delta at the mouth of the calcasieu river! the lake may be salt now and can no longer be controlled due to ship traffic, but the marshes can be protected. atleast if the weirs are managed right, as they are at the current moment, we can protect the marshes. in return we have the most important part of the food chain for all those fish you catch.