Thoughts on CCA meeting tonight on state of Calcasieu fishery

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by fishwater

Another thing since when is the Corp not responsible for rocking the channel or that's what I got from the lady last night. They can only rock the federal channel and nothing else is what it sounded like and there are no plans to do anything about erosion except dredge the channel ever couple yrs that makes no sense to me.

What she stated was that USACE "PRIMARY" role is to keep the Ship Channel dredged and that their budget doesn't allow for much outside of that. The rocking of the channel along the spoil banks was to keep the earthen dikes from eroding away and releasing the spoils. That was the justification for funding of those projects.

What we need is justification for the other projects mentioned. Rocking the channel at the South end of the lake and another area along the Channel is Moss Lake. Whoever this justification is presented to holds the purse strings. If they get the funding and funnel it through the port the USACE is more than capable of accomplishing the work.

["W"]

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

[capt coonassty]

Speaking of oysters, why doesn't LDWF seed north of the harvest line and use the north halve of the lake as a refuge to naturally seed the rest of the lake. LDWF is completely propping up the oyster industry on the lake. At least the private leases insure their livelihood by dumping rock after harvest.

[BuckingFastard]

grew up with jeff and his son. great man and i agree with what you said.

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

Let me ask you something

You saw that chart last night right?

Ok if you put your life savings in the market in one stock and it looked like that ENRON chart last night ! How much longer do you keep your money in that stock and let it fall?

Since dredging it has plummeted downward and guess what ? We are still allowing dredging with out any solution and you trust the Goverment ?

CMON

Did you notice there were at least 50 guides who showed up and more than half left after the weir discussion because it's the same old ****

We can't answer nothing or we are not the ones to talk to blah blah blah

what question do you have now about the weirs, after what was said last night?

[Reggoh]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Black drum dominate the oyster predation. Word among the commercial fishers is that there are a lot more black drum in Sabine than in Calcasieu, and several commercial guys whose home base is in Hackberry are regularly fishing Sabine now because there are more black drum over there. The predation and parasite pressure on oysters are comparable between Sabine and Calcasieu, so what's causing the biggest difference in the oyster stock assessments? Dredging is the obvious dominant factor, so don't let them blind you with reports of confounding factors.

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

what was jeff poe's queston? I don't remember....

[Nickt87]

Originally Posted by "W"

It boils down to this

You have to get the committee or Senator to make something happen


We all kind of knew what kind of night it was going to be when the Jeff Poe asked a very educated question and he got "well the Management plan"

Jeff is by far the most knowledgable guide and person on big lake ! I would take anything he says over anyone of those quacks last night !

The dredge lady should of stayed home because she waisted time and could not answer nothing !

The dredge lady was the most valuable person there! Obviously you could tell by how she said "I do this, I do that, I have this much money."

["W"]

Originally Posted by T-TOP

what was jeff poe's queston? I don't remember....

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

["W"]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

Zero oystering in Sabine

[capt coonassty]

This is some info on a fresh water introduction project.

http://lacoast.gov/reports/gpfs/CS-49.pdf

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Reggoh

The biologist just stated that there "other factors" like predation. He specifically mentioned whatever the "snail" predator was. He didn't say that was the only predator. I don't know jack about Oyster Predators other than what I read and someone credible tells me. If you say that Black Drum are the dominant predator to oysters, I will take it to the bank because I consider you very credible.

I agree that dredging is the dominant factor, my stance is that it is not the ONLY factor to be considered.

Is oyster dredging allowed in Sabine?

Good point, I was thinking of oyster drills (the snail) as a parasite rather than a predator because they are smaller than oysters, but many biologists consider them a predator because they destroy oysters.

I don't think anyone really knows whether oyster drills or black drum represents the bigger challenge in restoring and maintaining healthy oyster reefs. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oyster_drill

Oystering is not allowed in Sabine. Sabine has the best oyster reefs in Louisiana.

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by "W"

When the lake salinity drops in the northern part like by Conni , let's open that weir and let the low salinity water flow into the marsh that way your keep your marsh lower and allowing flow

guy said Manangement Plan don't allow that



That Managanent plan is out data and I'm sure it could use an overhaul with new solutions

It's what 39years old? That's before I was born and lots of things have changed and it needs to be updated and evaluated better

Weirs should never be closed longer than a 2 weeks

Every Full Moon and New Moon they should be open for 72 hrs

I remeber that, not trying to be rebute what you are saying, but they stated before that question was asked the the weirs are opened according to the salinities and different weirs are open at different times. Just as he was talking about, I wondered why he asked that question.
They also said that unless there are adverse conditions in the lake the weirs will be opend as you state above, which seems unerstandable.
not trying to argue with you but i thought i heard the answers to those questions...

[jlincecum]

Originally Posted by Gerald

There have been many project over the years where the dredge material has been used to restore the marshes. Some on refuge land and some on privet land.

When dredging out in the gulf, the water/sludge mixture is pumped into a barge. Only a small % is heavy solids that settles out into the barge. The light "silt" like stuff flow out with the water and the Westward Gulf current carries it away from the channel that is being dredged.

I don't remember if she said what was done with the material in the barge. She did say that they get about 3 barge loads a day.

A representative from David Vittor's office was there to see what was going on at the meeting.

it doesn't matter how light, fluffy, dense or heavy the material is, it is usable. It was once solid on the bottom and will be solid once again where ever they choose to dump it. The heavy stuff that you can actually move with a shovel is not the only viable substance that comes from this. If it stayed light and fluffy the need for that dredge to run 24/7 would not be needed because prop wash and turbulent waters that these large ships produce would keep it stirred up and these "strong western currents" that were brought up would just wash it all away. These materials being dumped right next to the channel being dredged is no the best use of this material, it is a waste. This is the point I tried to make last night but was just hit with the fluffy and cost too much reply. So which scenario costs more? Dredging and dumping next to your channel which requires equipment to never stop and no other benefit is gained other than a safe passage way for ship travel or getting the resource away from where you dig eliminating the chance of it going right back where it came from and rebuilding lost coast line with a side possibility of that channel not needing the dredge as often???

[T-TOP]

Originally Posted by jlincecum

it doesn't matter how light, fluffy, dense or heavy the material is, it is usable. It was once solid on the bottom and will be solid once again where ever they choose to dump it. The heavy stuff that you can actually move with a shovel is not the only viable substance that comes from this. If it stayed light and fluffy the need for that dredge to run 24/7 would not be needed because prop wash and turbulent waters that these large ships produce would keep it stirred up and these "strong western currents" that were brought up would just wash it all away. These materials being dumped right next to the channel being dredged is no the best use of this material, it is a waste. This is the point I tried to make last night but was just hit with the fluffy and cost too much reply. So which scenario costs more? Dredging and dumping next to your channel which requires equipment to never stop and no other benefit is gained other than a safe passage way for ship travel or getting the resource away from where you dig eliminating the chance of it going right back where it came from and rebuilding lost coast line with a side possibility of that channel not needing the dredge as often???

I thought she said to get that much material to the beach would be over 30 million? "HER" budget is 11-14 million.... they dont have the money even if it was good material. She basiclly said they beg for people to help find and fund useful ways to use the material and have used it on projects in the past...

[BuckingFastard]

i talked with one of the engineers that was doing the dredging. he said that we're too cheap to pay for it to be done properly and all they do is basically agitate the silt and let it cruise on down the channel in the water. he said places like florida and south texas actually use the material and build levees and land. it was just not in our area budget to pay for it to be done properly.... instead we put millions into building a little loop thatll direct traffic to a new casino and be more of a headache for all of us.

["W"]

We have a so called dying Marsh ( only in east side ) and we have a dredge pumping out material 24/7 365

But it makes to much sense to put 2 and 2 together and make it useful

Nope just dump the "fluff" back half mile from where you pulled it " She said it goes towards Texas anyway "

[jlincecum]

as for the weirs...Yes they have their very old plan in place that was working before our area was changed by forces of nature beyond anyones control. To think that conditions will return to what they were 10-15 years ago is like thinking you're going to win the powerball every week. They know the conditions and they know what is needed to improve, FRESH water. Yet they seem very content to sit there and collect a check holding the bandage on the wound and complaining about how much blood is being lost. If our state and local agencies and 32 subcommittees are so worried about Cameron parish turning into the next Lake Pontchartrain then why is their only only plan to wait for rain. They are worried about the need for water being so great that it will drop the ICW to a level that will impede navigation but are satisfied with just waiting for rain.

[jlincecum]

Originally Posted by T-TOP

I thought she said to get that much material to the beach would be over 30 million? "HER" budget is 11-14 million.... they dont have the money even if it was good material. She basiclly said they beg for people to help find and fund useful ways to use the material and have used it on projects in the past...

to get money you have to push for money. Im not talking about building a 12 million dollar pipeline to build up a spot in Joe Blows privately owned marsh. Im talking about taking it the beaches and rebuilding lost coastline. Yes this takes money from our gooberment but if it is taken to them in a viable manor stating what good could be done for our coastline rather some private entity it may not fall on deaf ears. How many campaigns and groups are out there pushing to restore coastline??? If these government officials preach it but dont feel the need to act upon it when it is put in front of them then we have found a root part of the problem and it will be up to us, "the people", to help solve the problem.

[Nickt87]

Originally Posted by jlincecum

as for the weirs...Yes they have their very old plan in place that was working before our area was changed by forces of nature beyond anyones control. To think that conditions will return to what they were 10-15 years ago is like thinking you're going to win the powerball every week. They know the conditions and they know what is needed to improve, FRESH water. Yet they seem very content to sit there and collect a check holding the bandage on the wound and complaining about how much blood is being lost. If our state and local agencies and 32 subcommittees are so worried about Cameron parish turning into the next Lake Pontchartrain then why is their only only plan to wait for rain. They are worried about the need for water being so great that it will drop the ICW to a level that will impede navigation but are satisfied with just waiting for rain.

BOOM