What happened to showing some restraint.

[southern151]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

Very scary,

What's the accepted best way to inform an officer that you open carry when your involved in a traffic stop etc?

If in a traffic stop, you really aren't open carrying in LA. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. I've been stopped twice with my pistol in my truck. Both times, I just slid it up onto the dash before they ever even got out of the car, away from my reach. Both times they saw it and, I told em it was, of course, loaded. In those two instances, I never had any other trouble or questions about it but, I was asked to step out of my vehicle, which I understand their logic on that.

[Finfeatherfur]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

I hear you, but i am gonna have to say that if i pose no threat to anyone (ie. i am not armed) (or if i am armed i am willing to comply with the law) then i should not be shot, and if the police officer chooses to shoot first and ask questions later.... he should be hung out to rot after my funeral.

Agreed wholeheartedly about the media. All of it is agenda based. Like i said i value the good work the police does a hell of a lot more the occasional bad.

here we go - making more out of it!
I said "if the situation warrants it" and if you say "you pose no threat" than why would the situation warrant me even pulling my weapon??? We are like a dog chasing a tail in this conversation. If the situation warrants me discharging a weapon, than so be it. I better have my ducks in a row because the LSP will be investigating it and it aint pretty - trust me!

If your wife calls and says she has a husband going off the deep end, I arrive to find you in the house tearing it up with her favorite tennis racket, I will ask you to put it down, then I will tell you to put it down, then I will make you put it down! In that order!!! - Doesn't matter to me that you got home to find her fat arse in bed with her tennis coach and your secretary having a 3some. The situation is you are angry, emotional, and swinging a tennis racket which I percieve as a weapon that can do me great bodily harm in this case.

If I get to your residence on the same call and you are sitting watching the Saints game, and tell me you just told her you want a divorce and she is freaking our, it will be handled as a "B- baker" call (no report/back in service).

[cgoods17]

tennis racket > gun




but you can still drive fast!

[RickLafayette]

For all you people getting your education and news from You Tube:

"There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S."

Now, do your math and give me the percentage of bad cops. The rate of bad priests is ten times that in the Catholic Church. I am a retired police officer, Detective First Grade and Parole Officer, and I am a Roman Catholic. I accept that there are bad representatives in all walks of life, but I still deal with reality, and an extremely large majority of law enforcement deserve the respect they earn from the majority of law abiding citizens.

[Finfeatherfur]

cgoods17, if you come at me with your daughter's make up bag, I will draw down on you like Annie frickin Oakley! I will go home at the end of a shift - and you can say what you want!!!! How do I know what's in that make up bag??? Really? You are some kind of dumb!!! A tennis racket will kill you just as fast as a baseball bat.

Just because I wear a badge and body armor doesn't mean I have to get beat and end up in a wheel chair from a head injury living in a vegetative state.

Have you ever seen anyone on "wet"? I tell you what, come ride with me and I will let you walk in the house first at a domestic and see what you think!

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

Very scary,

What's the accepted best way to inform an officer that you open carry when your involved in a traffic stop etc?

Hands in plain sight and tell him I have a gun. I have never had a problem during a traffic stop. The problems I have had is when im in a store and a cop notices my gun. They always want to question me for during absolutly nothing wrong. Had one cop tell me that me having a gun in his presence made him nervous. He didnt like it much when I said him having a gun in my presence made me nervous too. Me and that guy went back and forth for a while then he made a call to have a uniformed officer come and talk to me. Obviously who ever he called informed him that I was not breaking any laws because he was doing some serious crawfishing after he got off the phone. However he did not apologize for harassing a law abiding person due to his lack of knowledge.

[Finfeatherfur]

Originally Posted by RickLafayette

For all you people getting your education and news from You Tube:

"There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S."

Now, do your math and give me the percentage of bad cops. The rate of bad priests is ten times that in the Catholic Church. I am a retired police officer, Detective First Grade and Parole Officer, and I am a Roman Catholic. I accept that there are bad representatives in all walks of life, but I still deal with reality, and an extremely large majority of law enforcement deserve the respect they earn from the majority of law abiding citizens.

Exactly!!

[AceArcher]

This isn't a beat up the cop day, or find screwed up **** on the internet day.

In this specific case the man was carrying his 9 month old child, he was not harming the child, he was not harming his neighbor's, he was not harming himself. At worst he was having mental breakdown and screaming obscenities / threats.

A police officer made an aimed shot on the guys head. Now i am a damned good shot, but i know that if i am aiming at something's head rather than center mass... it's going to be a aimed / careful shot / not a quick defensive one. When you add in that the guys was holding a child? am I supposed to presume that the officer would take less time making that shot? hell no... if he's a sane and stable officer then he would be even more careful making the shot... who the heck would want to accidentally kill a baby?

I have to find fault with the officer here.... He used a grossly unnecessary level of force that ended up killing a man who was doing nothing more wrong than having a bad day. In the process he endangered the life of a 9 month old child.

I get that your saying we shouldn't jump to conclusions but this is what the PD and the other officers at the scene say happened ( I mean if i can't trust the police's version of events what the hell)

Assuming that the other officers are not lying about what the shooter did, I can't see anyone condoning what this officer did.

FFF, i am not using this as an excuse to demonize you, I have said and recognize that the good you guys do is amazing. Anyone that thinks anything less should go walk down a ghetto street in detroit wearing a gold watch and see how long they last.

I am saying that this cop is way the hell out of line, and I would hope that most cops wouldn't want him anywhere near them.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

cgoods17, if you come at me with your daughter's make up bag, I will draw down on you like Annie frickin Oakley! I will go home at the end of a shift - and you can say what you want!!!! How do I know what's in that make up bag??? Really? You are some kind of dumb!!! A tennis racket will kill you just as fast as a baseball bat.

Just because I wear a badge and body armor doesn't mean I have to get beat and end up in a wheel chair from a head injury living in a vegetative state.

Have you ever seen anyone on "wet"? I tell you what, come ride with me and I will let you walk in the house first at a domestic and see what you think!

I agree with this and expect that if someone is coming after you, then you can and should draw down on them.

However, I don't know you... yet i still doubt you would plug a guy in his forehead, while he was holding his 9 month old baby, when he had no weapons (of any kind) just because he was talking a bunch of ****.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

here we go - making more out of it!
I said "if the situation warrants it" and if you say "you pose no threat" than why would the situation warrant me even pulling my weapon??? We are like a dog chasing a tail in this conversation. If the situation warrants me discharging a weapon, than so be it. I better have my ducks in a row because the LSP will be investigating it and it aint pretty - trust me!

If your wife calls and says she has a husband going off the deep end, I arrive to find you in the house tearing it up with her favorite tennis racket, I will ask you to put it down, then I will tell you to put it down, then I will make you put it down! In that order!!! - Doesn't matter to me that you got home to find her fat arse in bed with her tennis coach and your secretary having a 3some. The situation is you are angry, emotional, and swinging a tennis racket which I percieve as a weapon that can do me great bodily harm in this case.

If I get to your residence on the same call and you are sitting watching the Saints game, and tell me you just told her you want a divorce and she is freaking our, it will be handled as a "B- baker" call (no report/back in service).

What your saying is what i would expect of a police officer. Perhaps i am missing something but i don't see how this compares to what happened in the original.

All that said..... My wife said that if you call her arse fat again... she gonna take you out... Officer or not...

(The above is satirical....ie.... satire... not serious.... oh shiz don't show up at my house and shoot my wife bro... )

[Finfeatherfur]

I once again go back to the video posted! Nobody can make a logical conclusion of what happened by that. Did the officers yell commands, what was in his hands - only says no weapon was on him. Family says he was on the phone then walked out. 3 officers on scene - if he faked having a weapon then he deserved to get capped.

This sounds like what seems to be a trend growing in numbers everyday. Suicide by cop. Look it up and become familiar with it. Happens everyday. Unfortunatley for guys like me, it's something we have to deal with.

[Finfeatherfur]

Originally Posted by AceArcher

What your saying is what i would expect of a police officer. Perhaps i am missing something but i don't see how this compares to what happened in the original.

All that said..... My wife said that if you call her arse fat again... she gonna take you out... Officer or not...

(The above is satirical....ie.... satire... not serious.... oh shiz don't show up at my house and shoot my wife bro... )

I just spit diet Coke all over my computer!!! Tell her I was only using her arse in a 'teaching moment" and meant no disrespect - but apparently it worked!!! lol

All in all, I enjoy good debates - logical ones with things learned on both sides. I have seen some pretty shoddy police work before. All I can do is pray that I make the right decision when I am pressed to do so. It comes down to training, common sense, and unfortunately some luck.

[duckman1911]

At least the cop in the video is proficient with his weapon. There are too many cops out there that cant shoot for s??t. Back when I shot uspsa matches I loved it when some cocky little squirt with a badge would come shoot a match with us. By the end of the day they werent so cocky. Nothing like gettin ya azz handed to you to deflate your ego. Granted I did shoot with several LE officers that were excellent shots. Even they enjoyed spanking those cocky cops.lol. Prolly more than the rest of us.

[AceArcher]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

I just spit diet Coke all over my computer!!! Tell her I was only using her arse in a 'teaching moment" and meant no disrespect - but apparently it worked!!! lol

All in all, I enjoy good debates - logical ones with things learned on both sides. I have seen some pretty shoddy police work before. All I can do is pray that I make the right decision when I am pressed to do so. It comes down to training, common sense, and unfortunately some luck.

LOL... she's laughing her butt off right now...

In all honesty, I pray that if i am ever in a situation i have a cop like you respond to the situation, someone willing to use their brain, as well as their badge and gun.

Again thanks for what you do.

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

Oh, that's right - neighbors called because he was whacked out carrying a kid waving a gun. It said officer "thought he saw" and that is all that is needed in a perceived threat.

You mean that the neighbors ***CLAIMED*** he was wacked out carrying a kid and waving a gun. This CLAIM was in no way corroborated.

We've reviewed a number of cases where the person making a complaint exaggerates the actions of an honest citizen who may or may not even be in possession of a gun. People who are afraid of armed citizens tend to want police on the scene quickly to deal with one. To facilitate this, they often exaggerate the bit about the gun. Sometimes they claim the gun was pointed at them when it never left the holster. Sometimes they claim that a gun is present based on knowledge of the individual as a gun owner, but without actually seeing a gun.

Hoplophobic complaints of exaggerated risks are a significant contributor to bad officer involved shootings. I do not think that experienced law enforcement officers are ignorant of the propensity for some complaintants to exaggerate the situation to get them on the scene quickly.

In the present case, it appears that an unarmed man was shot, and that all the guns were in the house. A good investigation should determine whether the complaintants lied about the man waving the gun, or whether he genuinely was waving a gun about and returned the gun to the home before police arrived. If this man's death resulted from exaggerated claims from hoplophobic neighbors, then I hope they face appropriate charges for making a false report.

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

You mean that the neighbors ***CLAIMED*** he was wacked out carrying a kid and waving a gun. This CLAIM was in no way corroborated.

We've reviewed a number of cases where the person making a complaint exaggerates the actions of an honest citizen who may or may not even be in possession of a gun. People who are afraid of armed citizens tend to want police on the scene quickly to deal with one. To facilitate this, they often exaggerate the bit about the gun. Sometimes they claim the gun was pointed at them when it never left the holster. Sometimes they claim that a gun is present based on knowledge of the individual as a gun owner, but without actually seeing a gun.

Hoplophibic complaints of exaggerated risks are a significant contributor to bad officer involved shootings. I do not think that experienced law enforcement officers are ignorant of the propensity for some complaintants to exaggerate the situation to get them on the scene quickly.

In the present case, it appears that an unarmed man was shot, and that all the guns were in the house. A good investigation should determine whether the complaintants lied about the man waving the gun, or whether he genuinely was waving a gun about and returned the gun to the home before police arrived. If this man's death resulted from exaggerated claims from hoplophobic neighbors, then I hope they face appropriate charges for making a false report.

Exactly. Two years ago I had the sheriffs office called on me because a nieghbor thought I was blowing up pipe bombs. We were shooting tannerite(perfectly legal) not blowing up pipe bombs. Its that kind of crap that will have SWAT rolling up in force with AR's and MP5's in hand. Luckily that didnt happen. When the cops walked around to our patio I was sitting there with some friends with guns all over the table. Now what happens in that situation if some keyed up cop with a gun in his hand comes around the corner of my house and sees that? Im sorry but Im not willing to bet my life that he makes the right decision.

[Finfeatherfur]

This is how a call with really bad potential ends in the right manner! Note- Tasers do not work when the suspect has bulky clothing.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Woman-stabs-...228038961.html

[duckman1911]

Originally Posted by Finfeatherfur

This is how a call with really bad potential ends in the right manner! Note- Tasers do not work when the suspect has bulky clothing.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Woman-stabs-...228038961.html

This situation was handle good once police were on scene. My first thought after reading the article was "who the hell calls the cops because someone yelled at you when you drove by?" Police would have a lot less bs calls to deal with if people would mind their own damn business and maybe toughen up a lot.

[hawgsquatch]

I love a good internet fight, but I am wary of pitching in my opinion here.

I will say that unless you were there it is hard to judge.

The cop who shoved the lady deserves to spend some time in a cell and lose everything he has.

They rarely teach the constitution in police academies these days. We would all be better served if ALL public servants were to be required to have mandated continuing constitutional instruction, with mandatory
testing.

I am qualified to say I would rather get cut than tase a 86 year old woman in a bed.

Driving 141 miles an hour without a GREAT reason is irresponsible, negligent, and furthers the growing opinion that "we" are better than "them" and do not have to follow the rules.

Bring it!

[Clampy]

Originally Posted by hawgsquatch

I love a good internet fight, but I am wary of pitching in my opinion here.

I will say that unless you were there it is hard to judge.

The cop who shoved the lady deserves to spend some time in a cell and lose everything he has.

They rarely teach the constitution in police academies these days. We would all be better served if ALL public servants were to be required to have mandated continuing constitutional instruction, with mandatory
testing.

I am qualified to say I would rather get cut than tase a 86 year old woman in a bed.

Driving 141 miles an hour without a GREAT reason is irresponsible, negligent, and furthers the growing opinion that "we" are better than "them" and do not have to follow the rules.

Bring it!

Popcorn Time


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