what y'all make of this?

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

"Generally speaking, you'll see fewer big fish at first," he said. "It takes four years to grow a big (speckled trout). If we're cropping more fish at a smaller size, then obviously fewer of them will have the chance to get big."

This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today. Fast growth rates are more essential to producing big speckled trout than protecting younger fish. In most Gulf coast estuaries, plenty of speckled trout survive to 4, 5, and 6 years of age. FL and TX produce more fish over 10 lbs, not because of higher survival rates to the older ages, but because of higher growth rates in the estuaries that produce a lot of trophy trout.

If you want more trophy trout, it is more essential to protect their forage base.

This article is old first off but MG this is getting real old and I can't bite my tongue much longer. You never had a shred of credibility in my mind but I think u just lost a little more.Jerald Horst has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about fish, he has written numerous textbooks and other field guides for fishes. This is what he did and still does for a living. I think most people would take the word of a leading
fisheries biologist on any subject regarding fish populations over a physicist pretending to be one. It would behoove you to read a book on principles of ecology (not Wikipedia). Wildlife and fisheries and the mgmt of them is far from an exact science and it's often not just one thing that is the causal agent but a multitude of factors working together. So the use of the word 'proof' or 'proven' or any phrase containing those words are rarely used when dealing with wild animals (although you have used those words repeatedly in your rants). This isn't an exact science like physics.

"This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today". Lord have mercy :*****:

A physicist with all the answers to our fisheries issues. Knows more than the people who wrote the textbooks on the subject haha

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by Duck Butter

This article is old first off but MG this is getting real old and I can't bite my tongue much longer. ... I think most people would take the word of a leading
fisheries biologist on any subject regarding fish populations over a physicist pretending to be one. It would behoove you to read a book on principles of ecology (not Wikipedia).

A physicist with all the answers to our fisheries issues.

I've never claimed to have all the answers, but my biggest strength as a scientist has always been counting data as more important than expert opinions.

My claims in the above post are well supported by the data in Stephen Bortone's book, "Biology of the Spotted Seatrout." I have access to many books and publications in fisheries biology, and I've spent an average of 10-20 hours per week over the past several years reading the literature on fisheries science.

My PhD is in fact in Physics, but my first laboratory job was in fisheries science at the LSU aquaculture facility under Dr. Dudley Culley. Scientists with PhDs in the physical sciences have a long history of making important contributions in biology. Perhaps you have heard of Francis Crick and Louis Pasteur?

I can't claim any discoveries rivaling theirs, but I have managed meaningful contributions to over a dozen scholarly papers in fisheries over the past few years. All of our papers have been well-received and the most severe criticism has been from other authors who we have embarrassed by pointing out their published math errors. We commonly receive positive feedback from numerous, well-recognized names in fisheries science for our published contributions. One state DNR in the mid-west recently wrote to us because they are applying a new analysis technique we developed to assist them with addressing a challenging management problem.

Please, if you take issue with my claims on spotted seatrout, try and support your position with data rather than just claiming your expert is smarter than me. Perhaps he is smarter, but unless he can cite data to support his position, he might still be wrong.

That's how science works. Science favors the position supported with data, not the "smartest" expert.

[keakar]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

"Generally speaking, you'll see fewer big fish at first," he said. "It takes four years to grow a big (speckled trout). If we're cropping more fish at a smaller size, then obviously fewer of them will have the chance to get big."

This is the biggest lie in wildlife management today. Fast growth rates are more essential to producing big speckled trout than protecting younger fish. In most Gulf coast estuaries, plenty of speckled trout survive to 4, 5, and 6 years of age. FL and TX produce more fish over 10 lbs, not because of higher survival rates to the older ages, but because of higher growth rates in the estuaries that produce a lot of trophy trout.

If you want more trophy trout, it is more essential to protect their forage base.

exactly and if you reduce limits you will have even less big fish because there wont be enough food for them to grow big.

instead of talking limits they should be talking increasing food stocks and creating more food supply.

this old article has been regurgitated every few years by those who want to limit everyone to 5 or 10 specks to be the same as other states for no reason at all just because it makes em feel good to "help the environment".

even bob marshal was spewing this load of manure in the paper and online justifying it solely on the basis that nobody is taking pictures with really big trout anymore. what a load of hooey.

science says if we take more fish out of the water then the ones left will get bigger because they will have an abundant food supply for them to grow. but NOBODY will promote increasing limits but everyone always wants to reduce limits no matter if it helps or not.

DO WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS YOU NEED TO DO - that's all that is needed

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by keakar

instead of talking limits they should be talking increasing food stocks and creating more food

Perhaps CCA could fund some of those automatic feeders and place them out all over the lake or maybe me of the CCA bigwigs knows one of the owners of L'auberge and can convince him to get the cook staff to throw out the leftovers from the buffet into the lake

[T-Bone]

Well said Mr. Crab. I second the motion.

[MathGeek]

Three of Louisiana's all time top ten speckled trout were caught in Big Lake between 1997 and 2004 (before the limit change from 15 to 25).

The limit change was based on the idea that preserving more younger trout would lead to more trout reaching older ages thus producing more trophy trout.

It did not work. Big Lake has not had a single additional entry into Louisiana's top ten specks since the limit change in 2005. Most tournaments and guides also report fewer trophy trout since 2005.

Having good numbers of 4, 5, and 6 year old specks is no guarantee of a trophy fishery. Those fish need to be growing fast enough to reach 22" total length by age 4. This will put them into a length class big enough to eat dinks to both control the population of younger fish (so younger fish grow fast) and to maintain high growth rates over their 5th and 6th winters when smaller forage becomes less abundant.

[Reefman]

Originally Posted by MathGeek

Big Lake has not had a single additional entry into Louisiana's top ten specks since the limit change in 2005. Most tournaments and guides also report fewer trophy trout since 2005.

Fact is there were no trout caught in the last nine years from any where in the State that made the top 10. This is not just a BL problem.

[lsuriot]

Louisiana’s Top 10 Speckled Trout
Weight Angler Location Date
1. 12.38 Leon Mattes Lake Hermitage May, 1950
2. 11.99 Kenneth Kreeger Lake Pontchartrain Jan. 1999
3. 11.24 Jason Troullier Rigolets (Lake Borgne) Sept., 1999
4. 11.16 Timothy Mahoney, II Calcasieu Lake May, 2002
5. 10.81 Kevin Galley Calcasieu Lake May, 1997
6. 10.75 Randolph D. Green Sandy Point Aug. 1970
7. 10.70 Barry Terrell Calcasieu Lake May, 2004
8. 10.65 Jason Ellender Sabine Lake March, 2013
9. 10.63 John Kaparis Unknown May, 1979
10. 10.50 Dudley Vandenborre, Jr. Lake Pontchartrain April, 2002
10. 10.50 Ed Sexton Venice April, 2000

[Duck Butter]

Originally Posted by lsuriot

Louisiana’s Top 10 Speckled Trout
Weight Angler Location Date
1. 12.38 Leon Mattes Lake Hermitage May, 1950
2. 11.99 Kenneth Kreeger Lake Pontchartrain Jan. 1999
3. 11.24 Jason Troullier Rigolets (Lake Borgne) Sept., 1999
4. 11.16 Timothy Mahoney, II Calcasieu Lake May, 2002
5. 10.81 Kevin Galley Calcasieu Lake May, 1997
6. 10.75 Randolph D. Green Sandy Point Aug. 1970
7. 10.70 Barry Terrell Calcasieu Lake May, 2004
8. 10.65 Jason Ellender Sabine Lake March, 2013
9. 10.63 John Kaparis Unknown May, 1979
10. 10.50 Dudley Vandenborre, Jr. Lake Pontchartrain April, 2002
10. 10.50 Ed Sexton Venice April, 2000

Doesn't count,
there aren't any wiers on sabine

[Reefman]

Originally Posted by lsuriot

Louisiana’s Top 10 Speckled Trout
Weight Angler Location Date

8. 10.65 Jason Ellender Sabine Lake March, 2013

I consider this a Texas fish brought in a La. landing. Thanks for pointing this out.

[noodle creek]

How much has the east bank of Sabine eroded in the last 20 years?

[schol]

MG you think all welfare goes to blacks?

["W"]

HCHOL

Name 1just 1 thing the CCA has done to improve fishing in Big Lake as per there mission statement

I got rest of day

[HenryBoy]

Originally Posted by "W"

HCHOL

Name 1just 1 thing the CCA has done to improve fishing in Big Lake as per there mission statement

I got rest of day

Hear! Hear!!

Get em Dubya!!

[hchol]

Originally Posted by "W"

HCHOL

Name 1just 1 thing the CCA has done to improve fishing in Big Lake as per there mission statement

I got rest of day

Keep you from keeping 25 fish a day!!

BOOM!!!!!!!

["W"]

Originally Posted by hchol

Keep you from keeping 25 fish a day!!

BOOM!!!!!!!

And how did that improve our fishing?

BOOM

Try again Troll

[schol]

Pulled the gill nets out of the water, that's a tough one "W"

["W"]

Originally Posted by schol

Pulled the gill nets out of the water, that's a tough one "W"

CCA did not do that either it was the GCCA which was whole different organization ran by real fisherman, not business men in suits and ties who fish 9 X's a year at best

[hchol]

Originally Posted by "W"

CCA did not do that either it was the GCCA which was whole different organization ran by real fisherman, not business men in suits and ties who fish 9 X's a year at best

Hey W...you'd be broke if it wasn't for those office fisherman!!!!!!

[MathGeek]

Originally Posted by hchol

Hey W...you'd be broke if it wasn't for those office fisherman!!!!!!

No one doubts that GCCA contributed to the gill net ban and reducing commercial pressure on redfish in the 80s and 90s. In 1997 there were some changes to the organization, and it emerged as CCA.

After that time, CCA has taken a number of odd positions for a group purportedly committed to scientific management positions. Most of their work in LA has been focused in increasing restrictive regulations, raising fees, and bringing boatloads of cash back to TX for expensive restoration projects:

http://www.ccatexas.org/wp-content/u...Funds-2013.pdf

http://www.ccatexas.org/wp-content/u...Scientists.pdf

http://www.ccatexas.org/conservation/research/

I think W would still be a successful guide had CCA never existed. Eventually redfish would have been protected and gillnets would have been banned. Redfish and speck populations are extremely resilient, especially in Louisiana, and the populations would have bounced back by the time W became a guide.

Unlike resilient redfish and speck populations, habitat does not bounce back. Once it's gone, restoration is painstakingly expensive and slow.